Burning up pushrods!

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SSG_Karg said:
Ok guys, I’m at my wits end with this damn W2 motor. It is still cooking the pushrods at the rocker end. This has been a problem from the very beginning on this engine and I’m out of ideas on how to remedy this.
First I tried longer pushrods. Two sets actually. That made virtually no difference. So next I disassembled the rockers and shafts, blued the shaft, reassembled without the adjusters in and scribed the shaft where the oiling hole is in the rocker while the valve was on the seat. Then drilled the shafts on the scribe marks so all the oiling holes for the pushrods lined up perfectly. I then reassembled everything and primed the oiling system while the cam holes were lined up to get oil to that head and the oil was gushing out the holes around the adjusters. I say “gushes” because it flows steadily but does not squirt or shoot out in a stream.
Thought that would surely solve my problem but less than 100 miles later I started to hear a clatter under the valve cover. Pulled the cover and found the #1 exhaust rocker adjuster ball was half eaten away and the pushrod was badly discolored from overheating.
So now I’ve tried 3 different sets of Smith brothers pushrods, fixed the oiling holes, and I have metal in the motor from a smoked adjuster ball.

This is a stroked smallblock with a solid roller. Just a shade under 500# over the nose, so stout but nothing radical.
WTF IS GOING ON????

Is it possible that the cup on the pushrod is not “open” enough to receive the oil that is running down the adjuster and it can’t get into the cup? It looks like a snug fit. I told Smith Brothers what diameter my adjusters are and ordered the corresponding cup size.

Any suggestions would be appreciated because I’m about ready to shitcan these W2s.
Thanks

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Had this to a lesser degree, discoloration from heat..similar setup, solid roller, similar spring pressures. To me, the PR cup looks pretty snug. I have the same Smith bros PR at 6.45 length. Oil through would possibly remedy this.. idk tho because I had piston come apart and annihilate the block before I could really address it.
 
crackedback said:
Oil output during priming and output when running after warmed up can be vastly different
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I would think the oil output would be better after the engine is up to temperature as the oil would be “thinner” and more likely to squirt or shoot out that hole and hit the adjuster/cup.
I’m going to yank the distributor today and take a video while priming.
If I understand Chrysler oiling, the oil pressure in the rocker shaft is timed, and should act kind of like a heartbeat while the engine is running.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Contact Manton. Adjusting Screws - Manton Racing Prodcuts

Their oil through adjuster screws will solver your problem.
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I don’t believe those will help me. My oil holes are below the threads.

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Locomotion said:
EDIT - once you figure the optimum length and wanna be nit-picky, the intake pushrods should be a bit longer than the exhausts because of the angle of the intake. I think I came up with +.020, but that was many moons ago and I don't quite remember exactly.
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I’m running .050” longer on the intakes. 7.350” intake/ 7.300” exhaust. That’s the effective length (measured from the bottom of the cup to the end).
 
Had the same issue on a 340 and found the cup was to tight for the ball. Only on a couple some were OK. We went with Ball & Ball pushrods and changed all adjusters. At the same time we switched to offset lifters to help correct pushrod angle. Big difference and problem solved. Offset lifter on the right. You can see the angle change by the reveal of the pushrod from behind the intake port

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Newbomb Turk said:
What is your hot oil pressure at idle?

If it’s less than 40 on the gauge you won’t have enough oil there at idle.

Also, I’d be looking at an oil that is an actual 100% Group IV/V base oil and has an additive package that uses oil soluble moly.

That will help.
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Oil pressure is right at 40psi at hot idle at 1000rpm. Hot cruise is 65psi. Currently running 10w30 synthetic Walmart brand.
 
Locomotion said:
A .150" difference is a big jump! In the first pic, the intake pushrod (right side) is definitely way too short. The exhaust pushrod (left side) could be a bit longer. My earlier gusstimate of .020" being the difference needed between intake & exhaust length pushrods is obviously too small. (It looks like the intake pushrod is turning color while the exhaust isn't!)
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Correct, the intake rod in that picture is way too short. This was the very first set of rods I used. They were all the same length. The exhaust rods were slower to start turning blue but they eventually did. The oiling holes in the shafts lined up with the holes in the exhaust rockers while on the seat but the intakes were way off. That’s why I drilled new holes. Now all holes line up perfectly and oil is flowing out the hole but still getting too hot.
 

MOPAROFFICIAL said:
Oil through would possibly remedy this..
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Unfortunately oil through rods is not an option on this combo because the oil gallery is tubed to shut off oil to the lifters. My lifters don’t support pushrod oiling anyway so it’s a moot point.
 
Depends on where the oil comes from the rocker shafts or the pushrods isnt the magnum design a hollow pushrod at feeds the oil up top? ? Is there some intermix of magnum vs la style oiling design parts? is it a magnum block? if so would it feed oil to the shafts? These nay be stupid questions but I'm not well versed with the magnum if it is a magnum block is it allowing for oil to go through the cam galleys and to the hollow pushrods? just thoughts
 

Dartswinger70 said:
Depends on where the oil comes from the rocker shafts or the pushrods isnt the magnum design a hollow pushrod at feeds the oil up top? ? Is there some intermix of magnum vs la style oiling design parts? is it a magnum block? if so would it feed oil to the shafts? These nay be stupid questions but I'm not well versed with the magnum if it is a magnum block is it allowing for oil to go through the cam galleys and to the hollow pushrods? just thoughts
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340LA block. Oil travels through the cam, up through the heads, into the rocker shaft, and finally out to the rockers.
 
This is the lube I use during assembly of everything, including inside the pushrod cups.

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In my opinion, looking at the pictures, in both cases your pushrod length was wrong. First time WAY to short, second time to long. W2s are sensitive to pushrod length, I have seen this before. Get the length right, and this issue will go away
 
SSG_Karg said:
That is what I’m thinking. I seems like the cup is such a close fit around the adjuster ball that it doesn’t “catch” any of the oil.
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OMM may be onto it. Looking at the pictures the cups are very tight on the ball of the adjuster.

I’ve never seen that one before but looking at it more I think he’s on it like stink on poop.

It may be worth a call to whoever made the pushrods and ask them but that makes sense.
 
If that is the issue, I wonder if the rockers are the problem? The OP is on his 3rd set of pushrods?
Newbomb Turk said:
OMM may be onto it. Looking at the pictures the cups are very tight on the ball of the adjuster.

I’ve never seen that one before but looking at it more I think he’s on it like stink on poop.

It may be worth a call to whoever made the pushrods and ask them but that makes sense.
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Oldmanmopar said:
Had the same issue on a 340 and found the cup was to tight for the ball. Only on a couple some were OK. We went with Ball & Ball pushrods and changed all adjusters. At the same time we switched to offset lifters to help correct pushrod angle. Big difference and problem solved. Offset lifter on the right. You can see the angle change by the reveal of the pushrod from behind the intake port

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Those ports aren't big enough.

:rofl:
 
SSG_Karg said:
Unfortunately oil through rods is not an option on this combo because the oil gallery is tubed to shut off oil to the lifters. My lifters don’t support pushrod oiling anyway so it’s a moot point.
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Same. Whos lifteres do you use?
 
What is the lash? If it is too tight, it can not allow oil between the cup and pushrod or squeeze out the oil film to the point of burning them up.
 
furrystump said:
What is the lash? If it is too tight, it can not allow oil between the cup and pushrod or squeeze out the oil film to the point of burning them up.
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I lash them cold at .017-.018” and they end up at .021-.022” hot, which is where the cam manufacturer wants it.
 
“What I would do”(which won’t be popular with many here) is……..

If the lifters are pushrod oiling capable(proper metered pushrod oiling)………. Get pushrods with oil holes in both ends.

That puts oil right where the problem is……. The
pushrod/adjuster interface.

If the lifters aren’t pushrod oiling capable, I’d strongly consider swapping them.

I wouldn’t change any other aspect of the top end oiling…….. just add the pushrod oiling.
 
PRH said:
“What I would do”(which won’t be popular with many here) is……..

If the lifters are pushrod oiling capable(proper metered pushrod oiling)………. Get pushrods with oil holes in both ends.

That puts oil right where the problem is……. The
pushrod/adjuster interface.

If the lifters aren’t pushrod oiling capable, I’d strongly consider swapping them.
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Who makes a pushrod cup with a through hole to oil it?

I’ve never seen one. Doesn’t mean they aren’t out there I just haven’t seen one.
 
Who makes a pushrod cup with a through hole to oil it?
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I’m sure both SB and Manton offer them.

I know of a few people that had chronic pushrod oiling woes on hemis that added PR oiling as a solution.

Edit- looking thru the SB catalog, they offer a few oil thru pushrod cups that would work for the OP.
 
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