cam choice review..

[dusterbing the peace]

BTW.. i am was thinking about something.. years ago beehive springs were going to be the future and were supposed to be better in every way.. why does it seem everyone still uses normal springs? was just hype?

The lighter load values they have lend themselves to hydraulic rollers and flat tappets. Solid rollers tend to be more aggressive, with use at higher rpm, requiring higher frequency ratings to control the valve train, which usually comes with higher load values from the thicker spring wires. Look at conical springs which will give better frequency values and also higher load values than the beehives.

 

[Jim Kueneman]

Thinking back on some of the SBM strokers I’ve been involved with, the Jones 255/259 probably wouldn’t be all that “wild”, and should exploit the available head flow.

One of the ones we did here used mildly reworked rpm heads and a Victor with a QF850.
Easy on parts 251/259-108, .600/.600 roller.
Made 535hp at 6000.

What was the compression on that one? That is my heartache with that cam and 10:1.

 

[PRH]

I’m remembering that one as using SRP inverted dome pistons, which shows a 10.2cr with a 65cc head.

 

[Icetech]

I have the bam rollers and 456/461 lobe lift. The oil bands don’t come out of the bores in a ‘77 360 block. Your lobes are a little shorter, so you are likely to be good. As was said, you’ll need to check of course since “every build is different”. My custom solid roller from comp came out to $620 (2 years ago), so your pricing isn’t too far off.

You’ll want to invest some more coin (~$1,000) in a good custom converter to match up with your combo and you’ll likely love the way it pulls... it’ll help to ignore whatever’s lost on the low end, and that one will lope nicely. Also invest in a good trans cooler.

I have a 3200 and a 3800 9.5"s sitting here.. was planning on using the 3800 and selling the 3200 off... thanks for the nfo

 

[Icetech]

Imo, there isn’t really any “need” for 6700rpm with what is going to be primarily a street driven engine.

The 245-250 number looks(to me) like a better match for 10:1 and “street”.
And the combo of parts will just peak where it peaks.

Edit- I changed my mind.
See post 25.

I think you are probably right on the 6700.. i need to rethink that.. cause in all honesty how often would i really take it over 6000 on the street, and would probably be better off with some lower rpm power..

This is why i posted here. i get tunnel vision and turn into a 16 year old picking the wrong cam again

 

[Earlie A]

I think it will be tough for the Trick Flows (if stock) to still be making good power at 6700 on a 408. That pinch is tiny.

 

[Icetech]

Howards has this which may be a bit more street friendly..?
Camshaft Type:
 Mechanical Roller
Basic RPM Range: 2800 to 6400
Valve Lift Intake: .585
Valve Lift Exhaust: .585
Duration Intake:
 277
Duration Exhaust:
 281
Duration at 050 Intake:245
Duration at 050 Exhaust:249
Lobe Separation:106
Intake Centerline:102

 

[Icetech]

I think it will be tough for the Trick Flows (if stock) to still be making good power at 6700 on a 408. That pinch is tiny.

yeah, i think i over did the rpm...

 

[Icetech]

BTW.. vacuum and idle are not a concern

 

[Earlie A]

yeah, i think i over did the rpm...

What intake manifold?

 

[Icetech]

What intake manifold?

Right now just a performer RPM.. wanted a trick flow single plane but haven't gotten one yet.. don't think my intake will go much over 6k anyway if that

 

[ValiantRacing]

I like the cam specs except i would knock down the lift to somewhere around .550, i think you may like how it starts and idles better.

 

[Icetech]

I like the cam specs except i would knock down the lift to somewhere are .550, i think you may like how it starts and idles better.

thats not much bigger than my 318 cam.. wonder if i can have a hyd roller reground to solid (which i'm sure would be fine)

My current one
Valve Lift Intake:
 .525
Valve Lift Exhaust:
 .530
Duration Intake:
 280
Duration Exhaust:
 288
Duration at 050 Intake:
 227
Duration at 050 Exhaust:
 235

 

[Earlie A]

Right now just a performer RPM.. wanted a trick flow single plane but haven't gotten one yet.. don't think my intake will go much over 6k anyway if that

Did Jones know about the dual plane?

 

[Icetech]

Did Jones know about the dual plane?

yeah i put it in there.. filled out his sheet on his webpage

 

[Earlie A]

yeah i put it in there.. filled out his sheet on his webpage

Wonder if that’s part of the thinking with the longer duration?

 

[Icetech]

Wonder if that’s part of the thinking with the longer duration?

dunno.. if i were a cam guy i wouldn't be begging for help I do think 6000 is more reasonable though.. so a little less duration would be fine..

 

[Jim Kueneman]

FYI I think most here know my tastes and this is what I put in the A100. To be honest I did NOT like it. Too much cam, too lumpy, made less seat of the pants power down low than my 318 with the cam that is more like what you said you have in your 318. I would never put that large of a cam in anything that I want as a nice street cruiser. Yes I could have put a higher stall converter in it (put in a 2800) but I would have hated that even more for the street.

Chrysler Small Block Compatible 408 c.i. Engine - 375 Horsepower - Long Block

 

[Earlie A]

The TF heads by themselves will be torquey on a 408. A dual plane manifold adds to the low end. Maybe he’s thinking the cam needs to help the top end.

 

[dusterbing the peace]

I have a 3200 and a 3800 9.5"s sitting here.. was planning on using the 3800 and selling the 3200 off... thanks for the nfo

What is this engine going in by the way?

The increase in torque should make your converter stall higher than that by a couple few hundred. I would pick something closer to 4500 so that the revs don’t fall back too far on the shifts, and I think you’ll be pretty close to peak torque right there.

But, I get that you’re trying to economize with some of the parts you have. That Howard’s grind may fall off pretty hard with that LSA, but it’ll pull harder around peak torque and may work better with your converter and manifold. That manifold will help idle some too. I’ve read that the Jones lobes have nicer ramps to control opening and closing velocities vs the Howard’s, for what it’s worth.

 

[Icetech]

What is this engine going in by the way?

The increase in torque should make your converter stall higher than that by a couple few hundred. I would pick something closer to 4500 so that the revs don’t fall back too far on the shifts, and I think you’ll be pretty close to peak torque right there.

But, I get that you’re trying to economize with some of the parts you have. That Howard’s grind may fall off pretty hard with that LSA, but it’ll pull harder around peak torque and may work better with your converter and manifold. That manifold will help idle some too. I’ve read that the Jones lobes have nicer ramps to control opening and closing velocities vs the Howard’s, for what it’s worth.

62 plymouth belvedere.. which is around 3200-3300#.. the things are tin cans.. and not looking to buy a third converter

BTW.. if it matters... 4.30 gears, 30x10.5 ET streets... i might drop to 3.55 gears or 3.73 at some point but 4.30s for now

 

[dusterbing the peace]

62 plymouth belvedere.. which is around 3200-3300#.. the things are tin cans.. and not looking to buy a third converter

BTW.. if it matters... 4.30 gears, 30x10.5 ET streets... i might drop to 3.55 gears or 3.73 at some point but 4.30s for now

Sell the other two, then you only have one

Gearing depends on desired acceleration or cruise speed of course…4.30’s and 30 inch tires seems like a good combo to me though

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think you are probably right on the 6700.. i need to rethink that.. cause in all honesty how often would i really take it over 6000 on the street, and would probably be better off with some lower rpm power..

This is why i posted here. i get tunnel vision and turn into a 16 year old picking the wrong cam again

I like using 6200 for a cap on street engines. Maybe a tad high, but it gives you some wiggle room. My red line is around 5500 for a street engine, so that's a little cushion for a missed shift and whatnot.

 

[Icetech]

Sell the other two, then you only have one

Gearing depends on desired acceleration or cruise speed of course…4.30’s and 30 inch tires seems like a good combo to me though

yeah, i don't do any highway driving, it's literally 6 miles too and from work, just something to beat on

 

[Illahe]

This is what jones recommended to me for a 408/trickflows 6700rpm max.. Just a street car for fun..
Solid roller..

Cam#: Chr360, R76424-77424-108
255/259@ .050"
.424"/.424" Lobe Lift
.619"/.618" Net Valve Lift (after lash)
108 LSA
Price: $695.50

And $1400 bam lifters...

Valve Spring#: JRC43
1.550" Dbl Spring, 16 set
240#@1.900", 600#@1.250", CB-1.150"
Price: $423.00

I was thinking around .580 withj 245-250ish@.050...

Was i that far off?

Also said go roller at that lift as SFT won't be as reliable...

just getting some opinions...

I figured i would end up around 2k into cam/lifters/springs... but.. damn

Why not try an STX20 from Racer Brown? He sent me one for my 4'x4.060" small block. 12:1 CNC heads with 2.08 intake on a 107 lsa.

$300 267/.570 with 1.6 rockers. The nose has ALOT of dwell...

Or: https://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/24...CxscesNIwOZ9JzPLQKjJmTPNgsqCEkLNrtfoYBXq8Iv6_