Classic Auto Air Bracket kits on Small Blocks? Need photos

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goldduster318

goldduster318

Overzealous Car Modifier
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Hello all,

I am looking at the classic auto air kits - I am not really sure when the 26-4732 or the 26-302 kit with the add on pulley is best or what they look like.

I have a 1970 Duster with the stock non-a/c pulleys and power steering. I also have a possible big bogey - an Edelbrock Super Victor EFI manifold. Photos of the area where the compressor would normally go below:
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You can see the manifold has a raised water crossover and I also have a thermostat spacer. The compressor just needs to go in a place offset to the passenger side and be far enough forward to not interfere with the intake. Lots of space to pull forward with the Contour fans there.
 
I have some pics from my car, will post them up later. I think you will be ok with the water neck, the back of the compressor stops just shy of the water neck. Im running an air gap intake on mine. I dont think the compressor extends further than the timing cover.
The pulleys were a huge pain in the *** on my car. I started with a fluidamper and it was the old style that required a special offset pulley. They have since changed them to accept a stock pulley. I ended up buying a new fluidamper and played swaparoo with oem pulleys until I found some that worked. I didnt like that bolt on pulley that came with the kit.
 
I just went through all my pics. Im posting every pic that shows AC related stuff. Looks like the site resized the pics. If you PM me your email address I can send higher resolution pics.


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I used Classic's set up that utilizes the stock AC crank pulley, and the stock AC water pump pulley. That arrangement originally uses a single belt running the Water pump and power steering pump, and a double belt running the alternator and the AC compressor. The problem with this is that the compressor is too far forward and you can only use a single belt on the alternator and compressor - when I complained their response was: "you only need one belt"...NOT. When the engine gets hot the single belt slips and squeals like a pig. I am presently in the process of realigning the belts so I can use the proper double belt. This meant finding a deeper crank pulley, a shallower water pump pulley and realigning the alternator and Power steering pump forward about 9/16th of an inch so all the double pulleys align. Why, you might ask didn't you just move the compressor back. That's because, as it is, you have to grind on the thermostat housing to fit the compressor on Classic's brackets (it says right in the instructions that you have to do this). There is no way to move it back another 9/16th of an inch. I really don't think this configuration will work at all for the OP's current thermostat housing set up. The intake on this car is an Edelbrock LD-4B.

By the way, this is a real domino effect - you replace the crank pulley to align with the compressor and realign the alternator to match the compressor and crank, and now the forward belt of the pair interferes with the water pump & power steering belt so you have to move those forward to get them out of the way. As long as you do it in a way that the water pump pulley and fan are still mounted to the face of the water pump impeller (NO spacing the old pulley forward!!!) it all fits nicely. It's just a pain in the patoot, and it is appalling that Classic sells this stuff as a "PERFECT FIT KIT". This isn't the only "adjustment" that I had to make to utilized their product...


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MoparMike1974 said:
I just went through all my pics. Im posting every pic that shows AC related stuff. Looks like the site resized the pics. If you PM me your email address I can send higher resolution pics.
Click to expand...
Thanks. I think I'm seeing some of what I need to see here. Potentially the brackets might work from this setup, I still have that huge water neck tower below the water neck and I think that would be the most major issue.

Since you did have the add-on pulley, do you happen to have any idea how that relates to the factory 2 groove crank pulley? I might not have any other choice here as I don't have any other pulleys...and my crank pulley has a 36-1 tone wheel on it for the EFI, which I would either have to redo or do something totally different. Since I don't have a mechanical fan and won't ever have it, and somehow I think my radiator is farther away from the front of the water pump, I think I would always have the option to push it forward if needed. I do have a welder, and I have CAD software and all that stuff so what would need to be modded could still happen if needed.

str12-340 said:
I used Classic's set up that utilizes the stock AC crank pulley, and the stock AC water pump pulley. That arrangement originally uses a single belt running the Water pump and power steering pump, and a double belt running the alternator and the AC compressor. The problem with this is that the compressor is too far forward and you can only use a single belt on the alternator and compressor - when I complained their response was: "you only need one belt"...NOT. When the engine gets hot the single belt slips and squeals like a pig. I am presently in the process of realigning the belts so I can use the proper double belt. This meant finding a deeper crank pulley, a shallower water pump pulley and realigning the alternator and Power steering pump forward about 9/16th of an inch so all the double pulleys align. Why, you might ask didn't you just move the compressor back. That's because, as it is, you have to grind on the thermostat housing to fit the compressor on Classic's brackets (it says right in the instructions that you have to do this). There is no way to move it back another 9/16th of an inch. I really don't think this configuration will work at all for the OP's current thermostat housing set up. The intake on this car is an Edelbrock LD-4B.

By the way, this is a real domino effect - you replace the crank pulley to align with the compressor and realign the alternator to match the compressor and crank, and now the forward belt of the pair interferes with the water pump & power steering belt so you have to move those forward to get them out of the way. As long as you do it in a way that the water pump pulley and fan are still mounted to the face of the water pump impeller (NO spacing the old pulley forward!!!) it all fits nicely. It's just a pain in the patoot, and it is appalling that Classic sells this stuff as a "PERFECT FIT KIT". This isn't the only "adjustment" that I had to make to utilized their product...
Click to expand...

I am really surpised about needing the dual belts generally, I mean that was only ever a Mopar thing to begin with. It could be because of the belt wrap being not that great with the alternator on the same belt. I really think the system MoparMike1974 has with maybe 140-150 degrees of belt wrap is superior in that case and this was the concept I was looking for. With the dual belt arrangement wanted, I wonder if the whole bracket set off of like an M-body despite its heft might be what you need. The later ones do have a sanden compressor, I don't know how they compare to this but its all dual belt and made to be that way. I do know the PS brackets are the same with those as with our cars though (I converted to a Saginaw PS pump for my hydroboost and got the brackets, core, and pulley from one of those)

My problem is that in the back I have a giant water crossover and fuel rails, so really I have to go forward.

I really do understand about the "Perfect fit" not being perfect, and adjustments being needed. Like a lot of aftermarket stuff, the engineering isn't really that great. My car is super modified anyway, I was hoping that there might be some pieces they have that at least get me *most* of the way there.
 
Yep, the pulleys were a real nightmare on mine but I chalked it up to the old style fluidamper. However, their bolt on "add a pulley" is very cheesy and no way would I run that. My only other complaints about the kit were the junk glovebox that doesnt fit and the cheap plastic firewall plate.
I made my own firewall plate from metal. If you cant see it in my pic, that was the intention. For the glove box I took a new repop, removed the staples then trimmed up. Pushed the staples back through and bent them over. Looked just like an original only shorter to clear the new heater box.
 
goldduster318 said:
I was hoping that there might be some pieces they have that at least get me *most* of the way there.
Click to expand...
The whole system has a lot to recommend it, especially the newest version with an electronic control set up and an electric water valve, but is costs a lot and for that much money there should not be that many times when you go to install something and say, "well THAT's not going to work". Watching threads about their products here, I also have seen various folks try to work with Classic to fix what's wrong and Classic seriously seems to have NO interest in fixing the problems. That was certainly my experience.

Let me give you a few things as examples:
If you use the adapter for the defrost ducts that they send you the outlet is right in the middle of the slide control that they had you install on the dash controls.

They have a great electric water valve, that they think you should mount in a heater hose and let flop around above the exhaust, rather that supplying a bracket to hold it on place.

You have to modify one of the slide control so that it will work properly.

As far as the double belt situation, they sell you a double pulley compressor and insist that you use a double pulley alternator, and then sell brackets in which the grooves don't line up with each other or the double groove crank pulley that they insist that you use...

As you say, hot rodding with after market parts can be a challenge and require skills to fabricate solutions, but when you market a "Perfect Fit Kit", it should at least be close, and buyers should be aware of the skills that they need to make the kit work.
 
str12-340 said:
The whole system has a lot to recommend it, especially the newest version with an electronic control set up and an electric water valve, but is costs a lot and for that much money there should not be that many times when you go to install something and say, "well THAT's not going to work". Watching threads about their products here, I also have seen various folks try to work with Classic to fix what's wrong and Classic seriously seems to have NO interest in fixing the problems. That was certainly my experience.

Let me give you a few things as examples:
If you use the adapter for the defrost ducts that they send you the outlet is right in the middle of the slide control that they had you install on the dash controls.

They have a great electric water valve, that they think you should mount in a heater hose and let flop around above the exhaust, rather that supplying a bracket to hold it on place.

You have to modify one of the slide control so that it will work properly.

As far as the double belt situation, they sell you a double pulley compressor and insist that you use a double pulley alternator, and then sell brackets in which the grooves don't line up with each other or the double groove crank pulley that they insist that you use...

As you say, hot rodding with after market parts can be a challenge and require skills to fabricate solutions, but when you market a "Perfect Fit Kit", it should at least be close, and buyers should be aware of the skills that they need to make the kit work.
Click to expand...

I'm currently dealing with all this as well. Had to make a bracket for the water valve. Modified the slide control wire so I can get full travel on the sliders. Haven't installed the dash controls yet so I'm sure I'll run into that fitment issue as well.

I have a magnum engine with the correct bracket from Buchillion but it sets the compressor right on top of the bypass hose and blocks the thermostat housing. I don't know why Buchillion thinks this is an acceptable bracket setup for this engine. I'm going to have to oblong the holes to raise the compressor up by a quarter of an inch and then cut the intake to compressor bracket in half and weld a half inch strip in there to elongate it. Then I'll have to fabricate up spacers for that bracket, the compressor, alternator and power steering while praying that I can get everything to line up with the water pump and crank pulleys. All while still only being able to utilize one belt.
 
I'm just trying to figure out any other option outside of the add-a-pulley. In my local area, the only way I could get any v-belt stuff is going to be slim pickings from late 80s M-bodies, Dakotas, or Rams - I think these have 4 if not 5 groove crank pulleys seeing as how they have air injection. I also have my tone wheel which needs a place to ride and I have a pro-race damper, which keeps the pulley spacing but it is bigger on the outer ring than a stock balancer. I also need to be able to spin this thing 6500 rpm, what I have now has no problems with that at all. I really don't know if I could even utilize any grooves that were closer to the engine anyway because the alternator and power steering pump can't get closer as it is.
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There's no way the car is getting another OE style Mopar alternator, so no dual groove alternators.

The inside stuff is a lot more inexcusable than the engine side stuff, there's enough variation in intakes / belt drives that there isn't a one size fits all solution. Bouchillon made all the brackets as far as I know.
 
Was looking at what crank pulleys are, but I think this one would subsitiute for the crank pulley add-on, it seems to be the same as my original 2 groove, but with one extra groove added to the front. I'd basically have to order the kit with the add on pulley and just use this.

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Is the farthest groove from the engine deeper than the other two? The diameter for the power steering is supposed to be a slightly smaller diameter and I think that is how that is accomplished with that particular pulley. Inner two pulleys should be a matched set.
 
str12-340 said:
Is the farthest groove from the engine deeper than the other two? The diameter for the power steering is supposed to be a slightly smaller diameter and I think that is how that is accomplished with that particular pulley. Inner two pulleys should be a matched set.
Click to expand...
It's an ebay listing. On my OE pulley the PS is larger diameter than the alt/water pump. I don't think i'd be concerned about underdriving the PS slightly.
 
pomonamissel said:
71 340 duster , did some connector fittings mods for a cleaner look .
Click to expand...
Trying to figure out the belt configuration from the pictures:
Compressor belt furthest from engine - belt just hits crank, compressor and an adjustable idler pulley?
inner belt hits water pump, alternator and crank?
No power steering?
 
yes thats correct . there is a added pulley on the crank for the air compressor , that belt routes around the crank pulley then the compressor than the idler adjuster . i think there was some mods done to the rear support bracket on the compressor as well do too the intake . and yes no ps .
 
I did buy the kit with the add-on pulley, and it arrived today. I did a quick test fit on the main bracket and the compressor to see if it would work with my Super Victor EFI intake, and it will clear to get the compressor on, but I will have to do some things differently.

Somehow the kit was shipped without any packing for the brackets and add-on pulley, this is annoying, also it wasn't well bagged. The spacers appear to also be unpainted so I guess I get to repaint some of this and also paint all the spacers.
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They include a bracket that's supposed to attach to a boss that at least exists on the factory intakes and some of the aftermarket ones, but does not exist on a super victor, so that's not useable.

It says in the instructions that both heater hoses are 5/8, so I will have to replace the intake fitting (which is 1/2 on a stock setup), and I have to do some rework to the fuel feed to my EFI that is there so the brackets fit on the back and clears everything, which may mean going over the valve cover or alternator instead of how I've had it.

I need to re-seal the timing cover due to a leak so I'll be tearing it all off anyway.

I think the rest is fairly straightforward given that it's standard A-body stuff pretty much everywhere else other than my 26" radiator and the location of my overflow tank which will probably have to change that somehow as well.
 
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