Clifford headers: now no choke for BBD. What to do?

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RonnyB

RonnyB

'64 270 Dartvertible
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Messages
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Location
North Zulch, TX
That's the main reason my 64 Dart doesn't get driven. Had a Super Six manifold and BBD put on it, along with some Clifford headers a few years ago. Now I have no choke, and don't want to convert to manual. To me, that would be like going from power windows to manual.
I had really high hopes of enjoying the car after the conversion, but have only driven it a few hundred miles since then. Drives great once it warms up, until then it's a piece of c**p. Letting it sit there and idle about 10 minutes helps, but only some. It's a waste of gas and time, and it annoys me enough that I usually just drive something else.

Been checking around, and it looks like the Motorcraft 2100 (like this one) with electric choke and 1.08 venturis is a popular BBD swap with the Jeep guys:
http://www.cjoffroad.com/writeup.asp?WU_ID=16&noAdd=1
http://www.jeepfan.com/tech/4.2LBBDCarbAlt-2.htm
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=131514

I've been thinking for a while about getting some bodywork done, a good paint job and new top for it. The car really deserves it, since there's almost no rust.
But I'm not going to do it unless the carb problem gets resolved. I already spent several thousand dollars on the motor, and almost never drive it. (The engine guy did a lot of performance modifications besides the Super Six and headers.)

Can you guys help me? I'd be truly grateful. The Dart just sits forgotten under a car cover for months at a time, and it deserves better.

LeftFront.jpg

 
Why not put a Electric choke kit on the BBD? Or you can replace the choke pocket from a newer year slant and use the Auto choke on the BBD. Ive done both with good results.
Frank
 
66aCUDA said:
Why not put a Electric choke kit on the BBD? Or you can replace the choke pocket from a newer year slant and use the Auto choke on the BBD. Ive done both with good results.
Frank
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Thank you for the reply, Frank!
Are you talking about the generic kit, like this one from carbsonly.com?
smallthedrmostat1231.jpg

I'd really like a carb with an integrated choke, but since the BBD is already on it, I'm interested in what I can do with it.
This generic kit in the picture is a little more complicated than I want. You have to get the coil positioned just right, and then there's the sensor that has to be hanging on the engine, and the wires need to be going from the sensor to the actuator... I'd also have to fabricate some type of mount since these are designed to mount on the factory exhaust manifold.
I'd really like something simpler - something I can just put on, and never have to think about the choke again! :)

What's the setup with the newer slant sixes? I didn't know they made any changes.
All I've ever seen is where the coil part is mounted on the exhaust manifold with the actuator rod goes up to the carb.

You know, the choke coil was broken when I bought the car 10 years ago - before the Super Six conversion.
I've never even driven a slant six that had a working choke!
 
Slants never had integrated chokes. They typically had a divorced choke thermostat which mounted in the intake runners close to the head and used a long linkage. Thousands of BBD slants were produced, why not just use the factory choke setup?

The Motorcraft 2100 is a great carb, better than late model BBD's ever were. They WILL NOT bolt to your manifold without an adapter. Then there's throttle and kickdown linkage hassles. There are several Weber DGEV kits out there for Jeeps as well.
 
C130 Chief said:
Thousands of BBD slants were produced, why not just use the factory choke setup?
Click to expand...
Didn't it mount on the exhaust manifold? There's a tunnel in the intake manifold that looks like the linkage is supposed to pass through. With the Clifford headers, I don't have a mounting point anymore.

The guy that did all the engine work made a linkage setup that looks like it would make it easier to adapt to a 2100.
I don't mind having to get an adapter.

The main goal is to get this choke problem resolved and be done with it.



carb linkage.jpg
 
Aussie Speed makes a Epoxy on, hot water bath for the underside of you manifold. This will give you manifold heat. This may be the best way to go. Ill be home on Friday if you want to give me a shout my number is 870-----821---0807. Ill think about it in the mean time.
Frank
 
Exactly......heat that sucker up. There's gotta be at least 1/2 dozen or so carbs you can use with an electric choke too. I love manual chokes!
 
I dont run a choke at all on my slant car.
If you really need the choke,go manual. Very simple cable to the carb. Done.

faucet pics 802.jpg
 
IMG_0500.jpg
I had an electronic choke with clifford stuff and when it rained the choke would go off no matter how long you have been driving. After working with it for years I gave and unhooked it no problem a casset case worked fine when cold till it was time to leave.
 
All you have to do is buy that electric choke you have pictured from carbs only. Make a little arm extender to put on the end of the arm to attach to the carb and then attach the choke puller on one of the holes on the head you use to attach a cherry picker to. The arm extender is because the hole on the head you'll be attaching it to is just a little further away from the carb than the original choke pocket it would normally mount on. Take the little choke thermostat deal and attach it to the other hole on the head. Get the two wires connected like the instructions say and you're ready to go. The thermostat will draw enough heat off the head and next to the headers to activate. All you have to do then is adjust the choke puller by turning the body of it and it'll leave the choke on longer, or pull it off quicker depending on your adjustment.
 
ESP47 said:
Make a little arm extender to put on the end of the arm to attach to the carb and then attach the choke puller on one of the holes on the head you use to attach a cherry picker to. The arm extender is because the hole on the head you'll be attaching it to is just a little further away from the carb than the original choke pocket it would normally mount on.
Click to expand...

Or just fab a bracket that locates the electric choke in the same location as the choke pocket would normally be. Might be easier than modifying linkage...? Just a thought.
 
Look at the Aussie Speed group buy info. I am SURE that I can get one of the heat boxes shipped over with this group buy if you want one.
Frank
 
I ditched the choke on my slant because it had a nasty habit of going to full on and flooding the engine after a quick stop at the store. I also went to an electric fan, helps the engine heat up faster because there isn't any cool air blowing past the block or manifolds until it's up to temp.
I did plan on getting the universal electric choke kit also, but here in FL it hasn't given me enough trouble to warrant a purchase yet.
Manual chokes remind me too much of lawn mowers :lol:
 
vynn3 said:
Or just fab a bracket that locates the electric choke in the same location as the choke pocket would normally be. Might be easier than modifying linkage...? Just a thought.
Click to expand...

Yeah that would be a lot easier. Just a bracket that comes out a couple inches over the manifold. Shoulda thought of that before 8)
 
player1up said:
I ditched the choke on my slant because it had a nasty habit of going to full on and flooding the engine after a quick stop at the store. I also went to an electric fan, helps the engine heat up faster because there isn't any cool air blowing past the block or manifolds until it's up to temp.
I did plan on getting the universal electric choke kit also, but here in FL it hasn't given me enough trouble to warrant a purchase yet.
Manual chokes remind me too much of lawn mowers :lol:
Click to expand...

You must be young. A lot of the antique iron had manual chokes
 
vynn3 said:
Or just fab a bracket that locates the electric choke in the same location as the choke pocket would normally be. Might be easier than modifying linkage...? Just a thought.
Click to expand...
Where was the original choke pocket - wasn't it on the exhaust manifold? It's had the current setup so long, I don't remember how it was.
player1up said:
I also went to an electric fan, helps the engine heat up faster because there isn't any cool air blowing past the block or manifolds until it's up to temp.
Click to expand...
You know, I never thought about that - and it makes perfect sense. The engine does take a long time to warm up. What fan and sensor did you use? I saw somewhere a post of someone who took the setup off a Jeep (Cherokee?) and used it on a slant. He cut the upper radiator hose and put the sensor there. Looked like a simple setup. I'm gonna hafta go check the local junkyards again.
player1up said:
Manual chokes remind me too much of lawn mowers :lol:
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It's really funny that you say that, because that's a reason why I don't want one. Too many times I'll be out mowing and realize I've had the choke on for half an hour! I know that isn't good. I guess I'm not as with it upstairs as I used to be...
daredevil said:
You must be young. A lot of the antique iron had manual chokes
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I'm old enough to remember them. Unfortunately, I'm also old enough to forget to turn them off. DOH!!!:banghead:

I really, really appreciate these replies! Lots of good ideas - some I never though about. Please don't be shy about replying some more!
This situation seems to be very common with the slant sixes.

My truck is in the shop right now, and I've been driving the Dart exclusively for about a week. I had forgot how much people really enjoy seeing it! \\:D/
So many people offer to buy it, even though it needs a new top and paint. It's virtually rust-free.
Good publicity for vintage MoPars - and old cars in general!
 
RonnyB said:
Where was the original choke pocket - wasn't it on the exhaust manifold? It's had the current setup so long, I don't remember how it was.
Click to expand...

These manifolds have the front 3 manifold runners removed to create Dutra Duals, but you can clearly see the choke pocket on the #4 runner.

If you position the choke with the carb in place and the linkage hooked up, it will help you figure out the exact position it needs to be.

choke-pocket-mods.jpg
 
doing all that work and having an un-enjoyable car sure makes a good case for a small block now doesn't it. :)
 
abodyjoe said:
doing all that work and having an un-enjoyable car sure makes a good case for a small block now doesn't it. :)
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Un-enjoyable for you isn't un-enyoyable for everyone.

I own both a V8 Dart convertible and a slant six Dart hardtop. The convertible is in WAY better shape. I've owned V-8 Mopars my whole life. Still, I enjoy driving and working on the slant six Dart WAY more. Go figure.

If you're all about how fast your car is, great. You've got a lot of company. Me? I don't race my cars, I just drive and enjoy them. And 200 reliable h.p. in a 3200 lb car with 20+ mpg is plenty for me. And apparently, there are at least a few folks who agree with me. Slanters aren't ALL people who are just saving up for an engine swap, BTW.

Slanters don't constantly suggest you V-8 guys swap in a slant, or if you REALLY wanna go fast, drop in a big block. Why can't you guys show us the same courtesy? Some folks LIKE slants.
 
Un-enjoyable for you isn't un-enyoyable for everyone.
Click to expand...


un-enjoyable for the original poster. that is what this thread is about. correct?


I had really high hopes of enjoying the car after the conversion, but have only driven it a few hundred miles since then. Drives great once it warms up, until then it's a piece of c**p. Letting it sit there and idle about 10 minutes helps, but only some. It's a waste of gas and time, and it annoys me enough that I usually just drive something else.
Click to expand...
 
abodyjoe said:
un-enjoyable for the original poster. that is what this thread is about. correct?
Click to expand...

Un-enjoyable because it runs like crap when cold, not because it's a slant. So, you're saying instead of diagnosing and fixing a choke problem, he needs a V-8 swap?

What if the new V-8 has a choke problem, too? Does he then need a hemi? I'm confused.
 
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