I’m glad you’ve figured out this guy is a horses ***.
COIL QUESTION
- Thread starter CFD244
- Start date
-
- Status
I’m glad you’ve figured out this guy is a horses ***.
I'll keep ignoring people until I'm by myself I guess. lol
but... but... but... MOAR ENERGY!! MOAR VOLTAGES!! BIG GAPS!
small minds are easily seduced by marketing and spurious claims. people that don't understand how ignitions work just latch right onto the titties philosophy: bigger is better and thus we get over carb'd over cam'd weak sauce **** with 50,000v coils that run like dog water that "just need a dyno tune".
I just laid out the basics of how garbage the HEI is. I lived through its introduction.
It was a weak suck from the jump. If you wanted over 4500 rpm you got rid of it.
For all its accolades if you had much overlap, it wouldn’t keep the plugs clean at idle. You could drop in a Mallory unilite and the plugs would clean up, it would start better and the timing curve was far easier to get in shape (before I became a giant dumb *** and started locking them out) and that was without a box.
The aftermarket has spent millions of dollars buffing that turd and once you get over 12:1 on gasoline or 10.5:1 on alcohol you start losing power. Fast.
But I’m a dumbass because I didn’t drink the GM kool aide and I’ve tested this junk many times over the years.
If you are a bubble gummer or you just run mostly stock stuff they are serviceable. That’s the best I can say about them.
The advance mechanism is straight garbage though. And on that point I disagree with my mentor.
At least I have a brain Turk.....
You haven't laid out any basics...on anything. Just a big mouth that runs off. And tell us about the 'small 3 amp mag' with a 0.022" gap that everybody is using because it so so good...
You haven't laid out any basics...on anything. Just a big mouth that runs off. And tell us about the 'small 3 amp mag' with a 0.022" gap that everybody is using because it so so good...
So the validation for a product is how many guys use it?
But your retarded logic the Holley carb is the king of the world. Oh wait, it is just not in your *** backwards world.
There are reasons to not run a mag. I’ll run a few of them down to educate the people who come along and want the facts.
You’ll post some idiotic remark and ignore the facts.
1. It’s a ***** and a half to run a rev limiter of any kind with a real magneto. You can do it, but it’s difficult.
It makes it hard to leave with a clutch without a two step. I did it, but prick drivers would try and dick me around at the starting line.
2. A 3 amp mag won’t fire a plug gap over .016ish if the compression ratio is over 13:1 on gasoline. Less than that on alcohol. Because inexperienced dolts like you purvey bullshit like plug gaps making a difference people get brainwashed into the nonsense.
3. Most magnetos came with standard magnets in them. The magnets got weaker with time, and guys wouldn’t keep up with the magnets and performance and would fall off. They blamed the mag but it was the idiot end user.
4. A magneto with rare earth magnets can easily go over 5 amps. There isn’t a battery fired ignition on the planet anywhere near that. Not even close. They are expensive but the rare earth magnets do not need to be charged. The expense is hard to swallow. I’ve run as high as a .032 gap at 8500 plus but it didn’t make any more power than it did with a .024 gap. It was just harder on the cap, rotor and wires.
5. Idiots believe everything they read. Warren Johnson even made the claim it takes too much power to turn the mag. Obviously he spoke from straight ignorance because my distributor machine has a 1 hp motor and it will spin a 5 amp mag to 10,000 plus rpm and not struggle. It turns up like any other distributor. You can’t fix stupid.
6. Magnetos use points. Mallory had specially designed cam lobes that kept the points stable to well over 9k. But points are points and they need maintenance. Most guys today don’t know what points are, let alone how to install and set them.
7. The size of the generator makes them hard to fit with tunnel ram intakes. I used my mag with three different tunnel rams. I made them fit the mag. Most guys won’t do it.
8. The biggest reason why guys don’t use them is because fools like you populate places like this and spread ignorant, misleading information based on zero real world experience and straight bullshit.
You are at the top of the mark for that.
I doubt you’ve ever built more than an honest 450 hp if any brand of engine. You are the quintessential bubble gummer. A rail bird who stands around, barking bullshit like a little yapping dog.
Take your ignorance and bullshit somewhere else.
Edit: one more two part reason why running a magneto can be difficult.
9. You can not use spiral core wires with a magneto. Even at 3 amps. At 3 amps you might get 10 hard pulls on the dyno with spiral core wires before the spark destroys the wires. You might get 2-3 pulls with a 5 amp mag on spiral core wires. If you somehow end up with cheap carbon core wires it will ball the carbon up at the spark plug end of the wire.
To that end, solid core wires and big mag’s generate incredible amounts of RFI and EMI. It’s a ***** to shield the wires and the electronics used in almost all drag cars today. It can be done but if there is one weak spot in the system it will find it.
I’ve seen bad **** happen when RFI screws with a rev limiter or when all the data on the logger is scrambled because the shielding failed.
You’ve been schooled.
Class…DISMISSED
Last edited:
4spdragtop
Well-Known Member
THAT I am not the least bit surprised. ANY amount of criticism is OVERLY scrutinized and favoritism enters the room.
Keep on running off at the mouth Turk. Shows the real Turk. Cannot win an argument based on fact or reason, so you resort to name calling. That shows who you are, not me. Still waiting for info on the magic 3 amp magneto....
While we are waiting, here is an 800 HP+ engine using HEI ign. I do not know the static comp ratio, but the effective CR would be very high due to the oxygen released from the nitrous.
While we are waiting, here is an 800 HP+ engine using HEI ign. I do not know the static comp ratio, but the effective CR would be very high due to the oxygen released from the nitrous.
Yup. Did you build it?
Did you SEE and VERIFY the dyno numbers?
Did it run an .080 gap on the plugs?
Was another ignition system tested against the HEI? If so, did YOU happen to VERIFY the numbers?
How much total timing was used?
What did the curve look like?
How did they retard the timing for the added nitrous?
Did YOU bother to VERIFY that either?
Once again you are a criminal poser. If I didn’t know any better I’d think that was more DV horse ****.
Hey, I see your hero has some new dyno he’s getting up and running!
No, wait…from what I gather the perpetual parasite has connived another sucker into letting him hang around and use his dyno. What a clown.
You’d think for the 3.5 million or so dyno pulls he’s made, and all the Pulitzer Prize winning articles he’s written and all the New York Times best selling books he’s authored he’d have enough money to buy his own dyno.
But alas, he has once again snookered a bunch of guys with his bullshit and he’ll use them up with broken promises and half assed ****.
And he’s going to drag some decent guys down with him.
BTW, what happened to the Walters guy he was using up? Did he finally kick his *** to the curb because he got tired of getting used up by that clown?
I mean, you ought to know. You come off like you are besties and talk on the regular.
Or is your relationship with DV on the “down low”?
Last edited:
so, i used my "phone a friend card" to get the real dirt on hei. this guy i know holds a phd in applied electrical engineering and a 2nd in physics. he was an in house engineer at GM and worked on the hei project from inception.
he said the real reason hei was developed was because of the notoriously weak combustion chambers of pontiac motors. the poor design necessitated more spark energy and higher voltage to overcome the terrible performance in stock form.
as the design evolved, they had to dumb it down considerably because they knew the target demographic of chevy and pontiac owners were not mentally capable of recurving a unit with out a very simple design and the most basic of handtools and understanding-- let alone not entirely destroying it the process. thus sacrifices were made in nearly every aspect.
so there you have it, hei is just a jumble of components that were "settled on" and constructed in a manner allowing the most IQ deficent the limited ability to tinker with it. all in the serivce of providing a crutch for the motors in GM's ugly step child that had terribly designed heads and sub par combustion chambers.
he said the real reason hei was developed was because of the notoriously weak combustion chambers of pontiac motors. the poor design necessitated more spark energy and higher voltage to overcome the terrible performance in stock form.
as the design evolved, they had to dumb it down considerably because they knew the target demographic of chevy and pontiac owners were not mentally capable of recurving a unit with out a very simple design and the most basic of handtools and understanding-- let alone not entirely destroying it the process. thus sacrifices were made in nearly every aspect.
so there you have it, hei is just a jumble of components that were "settled on" and constructed in a manner allowing the most IQ deficent the limited ability to tinker with it. all in the serivce of providing a crutch for the motors in GM's ugly step child that had terribly designed heads and sub par combustion chambers.
800HP running through 1 5/8" headers. ok.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
Hugo Holden is a time served electronics engineer 70s/80s who retrained as a GP in the 90s
he also was a contributor to the australian electronics magazine Silicon chip.
he has written quite a lot about ignition systems. but the ones that prompt most interest are Customising _a_reluctor_style distributor.pdf
and
capacitive_discharge_ignition_vs_magnetic_discharge_ignition..pdf
some dicking about on internet archive.org or paying for scribed access will turn the both up if interested.
neither document is easy to access anymore because they were published years ago by "someone who must now be getting on a bit" and he has not updated his website to modern standards, hence errors and security issues abound when you try to download.
he uploaded them to the Upload directory on his site to give access for his friends on a TR4 message board, so one presumes they were written to be published elsewhere originally, as they are not included in his "easy to find archive" of online published documents. the upload directory on the site is now full of internet junk (mainly chinese gambling site adverts) and access is restricted, presume the site is no longer maintained and the ISP has stepped in to stop the "free for all".
his test methods and conclusions are not without merit
living in australia he has access to mopar GM and UK Lucas ignition systems to work with.
he owned a triumph TR4 which he converted to HEI based on his research into the subject and dismissed CDI (for his intended application) in the process.
I've always taken what he says on the subject in the round with anything else i can find
i'm quite inclined to side with his hypothesis, based on the evidence he presents on the matter, he put a considerable amount of time building and testing and then created a 60 page report on what he had done.
he wasn't messing about.
Dave
he also was a contributor to the australian electronics magazine Silicon chip.
he has written quite a lot about ignition systems. but the ones that prompt most interest are Customising _a_reluctor_style distributor.pdf
and
capacitive_discharge_ignition_vs_magnetic_discharge_ignition..pdf
some dicking about on internet archive.org or paying for scribed access will turn the both up if interested.
neither document is easy to access anymore because they were published years ago by "someone who must now be getting on a bit" and he has not updated his website to modern standards, hence errors and security issues abound when you try to download.
he uploaded them to the Upload directory on his site to give access for his friends on a TR4 message board, so one presumes they were written to be published elsewhere originally, as they are not included in his "easy to find archive" of online published documents. the upload directory on the site is now full of internet junk (mainly chinese gambling site adverts) and access is restricted, presume the site is no longer maintained and the ISP has stepped in to stop the "free for all".
his test methods and conclusions are not without merit
living in australia he has access to mopar GM and UK Lucas ignition systems to work with.
he owned a triumph TR4 which he converted to HEI based on his research into the subject and dismissed CDI (for his intended application) in the process.
I've always taken what he says on the subject in the round with anything else i can find
i'm quite inclined to side with his hypothesis, based on the evidence he presents on the matter, he put a considerable amount of time building and testing and then created a 60 page report on what he had done.
he wasn't messing about.
Dave
Dave999
Well-Known Member
if there was humour sarcasm or genius in that post or some kind of social reference.......
you've lost me, its gone way over my head...
but think-on fella's , give it a month or so and you'll have your pick of Russian and North Korean igitions to choose from
Dave
you've lost me, its gone way over my head...
but think-on fella's , give it a month or so and you'll have your pick of Russian and North Korean igitions to choose from
Dave
if there was humour sarcasm or genius in that post or some kind of social reference.......
you've lost me, its gone way over my head...
but think-on fella's , give it a month or so and you'll have your pick of Russian and North Korean igitions to choose from
Dave
I started reading the second link. I’m not a fan of scribd.
I was asking you to give me a quick summation of the article.
Dave999
Well-Known Member
if you IM me i can send you the document
i can't add it here
in summary
test rig built that allows evaluation of spark energy
comparison of spark energy across the "normal RPM" range
in general he finds that HEI when used with an HEI coil not only has an extened rpm range
its dwell control allows it to run the coil cooler and maintain spark energy more or less the same as a CDI in the operating range covered
and hei wins due to simplicity of implementation
he discounts mopar style because it has no dwell control and runs at too low current in the primary to maintain the spark energy at higher rpm, Mopar style boxes that can maintain the spark energy at higher rpm are race only i.e the coil suffers at low rpm and, they don't work well enough for continual street driving at low rpm. the coil resistance and ballast resistance are set to allow the coil to charge up fast enough for high rpm operation but the dwell is too long for low rpm ops
hei limits dwell at low rpm to keep the coil cool
its max dwell is what it runs at high rpm.
that max dwell setting is by its nature a very small no. of distributor degrees because the current flowing in the coil primary is dramatically greater than what is possible with points or mopar style ballast resistor ignition. hence the coil gets to FULL way faster and therefore you do not need a long dwell at all,like points would, and the system can therefore manage high spark energy at higher rpms
he says all this a lot better than me.
its a reasonably compelling argument, can't say i understand the complex maths, but the conclusion covers the main points
Dave
i can't add it here
in summary
test rig built that allows evaluation of spark energy
comparison of spark energy across the "normal RPM" range
in general he finds that HEI when used with an HEI coil not only has an extened rpm range
its dwell control allows it to run the coil cooler and maintain spark energy more or less the same as a CDI in the operating range covered
and hei wins due to simplicity of implementation
he discounts mopar style because it has no dwell control and runs at too low current in the primary to maintain the spark energy at higher rpm, Mopar style boxes that can maintain the spark energy at higher rpm are race only i.e the coil suffers at low rpm and, they don't work well enough for continual street driving at low rpm. the coil resistance and ballast resistance are set to allow the coil to charge up fast enough for high rpm operation but the dwell is too long for low rpm ops
hei limits dwell at low rpm to keep the coil cool
its max dwell is what it runs at high rpm.
that max dwell setting is by its nature a very small no. of distributor degrees because the current flowing in the coil primary is dramatically greater than what is possible with points or mopar style ballast resistor ignition. hence the coil gets to FULL way faster and therefore you do not need a long dwell at all,like points would, and the system can therefore manage high spark energy at higher rpms
he says all this a lot better than me.
its a reasonably compelling argument, can't say i understand the complex maths, but the conclusion covers the main points
Dave
Last edited:
Dave999
Well-Known Member
summary of the findings used to back up the choises made in the Customising a reluctor distributor.pdf document
and keep in mind his work was done with aussie Bosch GT40T a universal performance coil
if you run the standard HEI coil or the ford one often referenced here...(same thing) ...its a 0.8 ohm primary coil....not a 1.5 ohm primary coil.... which would in theory make for an even better outcome than that illustrated above provided the electrical system can maintain increased amps for ignition duty. 0.8 is approx. 1/2 of the quoted resistance above. hence the results should be better than the "2.15 x better than points" quoted above.
Dave
and keep in mind his work was done with aussie Bosch GT40T a universal performance coil
if you run the standard HEI coil or the ford one often referenced here...(same thing) ...its a 0.8 ohm primary coil....not a 1.5 ohm primary coil.... which would in theory make for an even better outcome than that illustrated above provided the electrical system can maintain increased amps for ignition duty. 0.8 is approx. 1/2 of the quoted resistance above. hence the results should be better than the "2.15 x better than points" quoted above.
Dave
Last edited:
I could make first hand comments on that pile of junk but I’ll keep them to myself.
Nicely made HEI to Mopar electronic distributor heat sink mount kit.
Module Application
1974 to 1985 Impala
Great setup for your street driven mopars.
1,000 views as of 7:00 a.m. EST this morning.
Thanks for Visiting the FABO classic car site.
☆☆☆☆☆
Module Application
1974 to 1985 Impala
Great setup for your street driven mopars.
1,000 views as of 7:00 a.m. EST this morning.
Thanks for Visiting the FABO classic car site.
☆☆☆☆☆
Scody21
Just send it
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- Messages
- 3,834
- Reaction score
- 4,990
Stock ignitions for stock engines. When ever we see an HEI on a race car that comes through the shop that thing is filed in the round file…. Replaced with something better. We do have 2 modules in the spares box, cus you never know when a moron at the track has a problem and it’s the HEI module….
Another lie promoted by the guy who made the FBO “ignition” was they don’t retard with rpm.
That was a flat out lie. Some of the worst retard with rpm is the HEI.
In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.
That fits perfectly here. The king is the HEI and the blind are the the HEI swallowers.
- Status
-
Similar threads
