Collapsible steering column options ?

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dodgedartgt

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Our daughter just got her permit, and we made a deal on her first car. SHE picked out a '62 Valiant Signet 200 2dr h/t bucket seat car! I'm a PROUD poppa! No Hondas in this house... LOL

I've been researching for safety upgrades. In no particular order before putting the car on the road are;

disc brakes & dual resevoir master cyl
high back buckets & three point belts (or possibly combined via Sebring seats)
upgraded exterior lighting - including LED 3rd brake light & 4 way flashers
multi speed (possibly intermittent) wipers
side impact bars integrated into the doors, ala '73/up Darts

Of particular concern to me is that pre-67 cars had a solid spear of a steering column. Has anyone attempted to add this safety feature to their '62-66?

No negative comments please. This is an opportunity to give a bright and driven child what she wants, to strengthen a father/daughter relationship working on it together, and doing the most I can to help protect her from the OTHER idiots that she'll ultimately have to share the road with.

My preference is to do this with factory parts.

Thnx in advance,
Mike in FL
 
I have not, but have heard of using a later model column. Good luck with your build.
 
Not trying to be negative but swallow that pride and get her something safe for a driver and build the Signet as a side, father daughter project.

You can toss all the safety stuff you want at that car but what you can't do is remove the rigidity in the structure.

That rigidity transfers the energy from a collision to the driver and passengers, smashing the brain and internal organs onto the skull and ribcage.

New drivers wreck. Let her wreck a Honda or Toyota. After she has a couple years experience under her belt she can move on to her "Fun" car.

Took you 15 years to get her to where she is now, why toss her in harm way?

Please note: I am a professional collision repair technician. I deal with the safety systems in modern cars every day. I have seen the wrecks. I know the outcome.
 
I was going to give my '64 Valiant to my son but he's driving a '75 Dart for all the reasons Mike stated. Kudos to you for striving to make the '62 Valiant safer. It's going to be so cool, esp. a 2 dr. hardtop! I'm not sure about the steering column swap, but it may be a direct swap. I'd add to your list a padded dash, and reinforcements to the floor pan where the seats anchor.
Brakes are the most important upgrade. A window washer, if not already installed, and a reverse light would be nice.
 
Thnx all,

At '68 - I will be Encouraging her to drive the '03 Neon as much as I can. Fact is, it'll have better mileage, airbags, all around handling, etc. Also, it'll drive now, and the Valiant WILL take time and money. These are all "safety" thoughts NOT lost on her dad.

Back to the original question... collapsible column?

Mike in FL
 
dodgedartgt said:
Thnx all,

At '68 - I will be Encouraging her to drive the '03 Neon as much as I can. Fact is, it'll have better mileage, airbags, all around handling, etc. Also, it'll drive now, and the Valiant WILL take time and money. These are all "safety" thoughts NOT lost on her dad.

Back to the original question... collapsible column?

Mike in FL
Click to expand...

is this a manual or auto car? floor or column shift? i bet a 67 column would be adapted really easy and maybe able to use the original wheel
 
dodgedartgt, see if you can measure the column in the Signet.

Overall length.
Length from firewall to steering coupler.
Length from wheel mount to firewall.

The more the better.

The guys here can use those measurements to see how close a later column will get you.
 
From the 1967 Dart Press release:

"Also standard on all the '67 Dodges is Dart's new energy-absorbing steering column, designed to "telescope" at a controlled rate under head-one collision conditions. Instead of being driver rearward toward the driver on impact, it collapses. And if the driver is thrown onto the wheel, the column telescopes even further to reduce the force of in-car "second collisions."
The safety steering column consists of a telescoping shaft with upper and lower section connected by plastic shear pins; a three-piece telescoping transmission selector torque tube; a column jacket designed to collapse in "accordion" fashion; and a mounting bracket that connects the column to the instrument panel but blocks rearward movement of the column on impact."

From the 1968 release:

"The impact-absorbing steering column jacket of 1967 was made of two section of tubing with an expanded section welded at each end. In 1968, design improvements -- including a single section of metal with perforations stamped during fabrication -- make the unit stronger, yet more yielding in case of impact."

So there were changes in the collapsible steering over the years. I'd imagine a unit from a '67 might be a different length that the '68.

There's also modern aftermarket units indifferent lengths:

http://www.carlsracing.com/category/parts-categories/steering
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
dodgedartgt, see if you can measure the column in the Signet.

Overall length.
Length from firewall to steering coupler.
Length from wheel mount to firewall.

The more the better.

The guys here can use those measurements to see how close a later column will get you.
Click to expand...

also diameter, may be able to use the original saddle on the new column.

phogroian said:
If the later ones are a different length there are also aftermarket collapsible units of different lengths:


http://www.carlsracing.com/category/parts-categories/steering
Click to expand...

length isn't an issue as long is its a floor shift. we cut down stock column and turn them into "hemi" columns for our SS cars all the time, but if you need the shifter up there then your going to get tricky, but still could be done...
 
Unless you are willing to put a full cage in that car,its never going to be "safe". Seeing how careless 16 yr. olds are while driving, I would put her in a Volvo. Save her life, and save a classic. Sure you could add a lot of things to the car to make it safer, but it will never even come close to a car made after 1990. Its awesome that she is into these old cars, but its not worth her life. I would rather see my son/wife/daughter in a Honda than in a casket. Food for thought.
 
The car is still in OR. We are planning on bringing it here in the spring or early summer. In the meantime, does anyone have access to a '60-62 Valiant or Lancer that could take the measurements?

Thnx in advance,
Mike in FL
 
He asked a question about steering columns, not for your opinions about old.cars not bein g safe. Im sure he knows newer cars are safer.
 
Nirvana said:
Unless you are willing to put a full cage in that car,its never going to be "safe". Seeing how careless 16 yr. olds are while driving, I would put her in a Volvo. Save her life, and save a classic. Sure you could add a lot of things to the car to make it safer, but it will never even come close to a car made after 1990. Its awesome that she is into these old cars, but its not worth her life. I would rather see my son/wife/daughter in a Honda than in a casket. Food for thought.
Click to expand...


I know he didn't ask for opions but I have to agree with this 100%

if your not used to old cars there hard to drive, steering is loose compared to a rack and don't have all those life saving crumple zones so the vehicle takes the hit not the person

don't believe me watch this

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPF4fBGNK0U"]2009 Chevy Malibu vs 1959 Bel Air Crash Test - YouTube[/ame]
 
baracus said:
He asked a question about steering columns, not for your opinions about old.cars not bein g safe. Im sure he knows newer cars are safer.
Click to expand...

Its not my opinion, its fact. I would rather be "that guy" then have to read the thread about his kid being killed because she was driving an old car,and some idiot texting "LOL" to his/her butt buddy drifted in her lane. Im done posting in this thread.
 
Nirvana said:
Its not my opinion, its fact. I would rather be "that guy" then have to read the thread about his kid being killed because she was driving an old car,and some idiot texting "LOL" to his/her butt buddy drifted in her lane. Im done posting in this thread.
Click to expand...

Although I agree (and was, in fact, the first to make a post on the issue), she will be getting her feet wet in a Neon and have some driving experience before she moves onto the Signet.

Regardless, a father, daughter build with safety in mind is a great idea.
 
dodgedartgt said:
The car is still in OR. We are planning on bringing it here in the spring or early summer. In the meantime, does anyone have access to a '60-62 Valiant or Lancer that could take the measurements?
Click to expand...

Does anybody know if a 65 column is the same as a 62? I have a 65 column I could measure up.
 
We were all 16 once, drove old cars, AND lived. Say it ain't so!!!

Its awesome that she wants to get involved in an old mopar. Good luck with the swap. Wish I could help you with the measurements.
 
mopowers said:
We were all 16 once, drove old cars, AND lived. Say it ain't so!!!

Its awesome that she wants to get involved in an old mopar. Good luck with the swap. Wish I could help you with the measurements.
Click to expand...

most of those old cars were less then 20 years old at the time and they didn't have cell phones and the traffic that there is now

I think its great she will be learning in a neon, soon thats all she will want to drive mon-friday, especially when it comes to filling the tank
 
66plyValiant said:
I don't know length wise but 1962 would be push button and 65 column shift/floor
Click to expand...

This column is from a 65 manual trans car. Over length from steering coupler to top of shaft is 40 1/2, length of body of column is 31, outside dimensions is 2 3/16th
 
Keith,

Thnx for the measurements. All '60-64 Valiants, Lancers and Darts are either push button or floor shift. '65-66's could have been column of floor shift. Column shift units can be converted to non-column shift.

Now, does anyone have a '67-up (prefferably '68-up column for comparison purposes

Now, for all the unrequested opinions that have been offered:

Everyone has, and is entitled to, their own opinions. In this case, they specifically were not asked for. Please re-read my first post.

None of you know our daughter, so you're not in a position to pass judgement. She is NOT a typical teenager, and is VERY driven. As parents, we don't tell her what to do, just that she needs do her very best.

Prior to even starting high school, she had already selected her college and DOUBLE major. Now that she is in high school, every class she has, if its available, is an Honors class. In other words, she is earning 5.0 grades weighted on a 4.0 scale. And yes, she is always on the principal's list with all A's. SHE chose this particular high school due to the specific college prep opportunities it provides toward her planned studies. Lastly, everyone must agree that, as well and long recognized by the insurance companies, there is a direct correlation between a young driver's academic performance and likelyhood of accident or injury.

She and I have discussed differences in design and construction of the Valiant vs. modern vehicles. She understands there are advantages AND disadvantages to each and where and why many of those differences lay.

We are teaching her to be a defensive driver. In addition to her mother and I, and driver's education, in a few weekends, she will participate in the local county sherrif's Teen Driving Challenge. This includes 4hrs of classroom time on Friday evening and 4hrs of classroom on Saturday along with seat time, in our car, at the sherrif's department's closed course drivers training facility, with their instructors. Following that, in the spring, we plan to enroll her in a high performance driving course.

In short, she is an above average teenager AND she is being given "more tools in her belt" than most her age. And yes, I will encourage, and do hope, that she is more inclined toward using the Neon as a daily driver.

With all that said, life is full of dangers. Each of us have to make our OWN choices (enter your own personal editorial comments here :grin:) and live with the outcome.

Final comment: Our daughter is DIRECTLY responsible for me using a bluetooth headset, out of her concern about distractions, when she was only 9yrs old!

Now, are there anymore questions, other than the one I started this thread about?

Thnx in advance,
Mike in FL
 
my first car
1965 plymouth belvedere II 225/3 on the tree

second car
1968 dodge dart 225/904

third car
1972 Datsun 240z stick

4th car
1973 dart swinger

im 23 and still alive... the fact is a new car isn't going to save your life, learning how to drive, proper following distances for any given speed, going a safe speed, being able to react to another driver before something happens.

i drive my 73 swinger everyday, even with the discs it dosn't stop the best. i give more than the safe distance, always mind who is behind me, always leave an out. my point is all these people drive like idiots because they think there car is safe, yet everything they do makes it unsafe. having her learn to drive an "un-safe" car IMO is the best because you learn respect.
 
You may have to change the brake pedal. I posted photos of a 64 vs 74 pedal assembly a few weeks ago (search) and the later goes on the opposite side of the column, maybe because the collapsible column is thicker. I would like to get rid of the 74 pedal, so if you need it PM me. Real cheap $10 + shipping.

I am keeping the original columns in my 64 & 64 cars. I think it unlikely that the K-frame and steering box could be pushed back into the cabin. I suspect the concern was un-belted drivers getting impaled on the column, and I always belt up. I don't know if I would even trust an old collapsible column collapsing like it should w/ rust and such. I put Sebring seats in my 65 Dart. That gives an integral shoulder belt.

Don't believe everything people state about safety. The video of the Malibu slicing thru the old Bel Air looks bogus to many, including me and I am a mechanical engineer. The video implies that the new car is sturdier and more rigid and thus slices right thru the weak old car. This is the exact opposite of the "crumple zones" idea of modern safety. You see a rust cloud rise from the old car. Maybe the frame members were cut too, like in a Hollywood flick. There is a reason that people use my 65 Newport in demolition derbies. How do you think the newer Malibu would fare there?

A lot of strange claims about brakes. If the brakes can lock up the tires, you can't get any more braking than that (actually pumping the brakes to stay just before lockup is ideal). A recent Wheeler Dealers episode showed them braking a WRX on a wet track after upgrading to big brakes. They commented on how much better it braked. Does that mean the original brakes couldn't have skidded the tires? The whole purpose of disk brakes is quicker cooling for repeated stops or from very high speeds. Doesn't sound like your daughter will be driving that fast. I suspect most problems with drum brakes is due to poor maintenance. I did put a dual reservoir MC on all my 60's cars, using a 95 Breeze ABS MC w/ 2-4 bolt adapter.
 
funny, if this was a 16yr old guy posting about getting a little more HP out of the same car nobody would be saying don't do it, YOUR GOING TO DIE!
 
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