confused - or just a stupid question

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7duster4

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This is really starting to bug me. I have had my Duster back for nearly a month and the rebuilt 318 now has a little over 500 miles. I changed the oil last week. So tonight me and my buddy were out doing some cruising and we decided to do a couple burnouts. He has an old Mercury Comet 302. My 318 has been rebuilt with 340 cam, ported heads, edelbrock intake and 4-barrel, pistons, 340 valve springs, etc... I tried to do a burnout, and I wasn't getting any spinning what-so-ever. How can this be?!? Before the engine was pulled out, I had no trouble squelling the tires. And that was when the engine was basically stock except for duel exhaust. I had the brake in all the way, and the gas nearly floored. Nothing happened, just sounded really good lol. Could the timing have anything to do with it. Right now it is about 15 or so degrees advance. I know it should be around 34 total at 3,000rpm. I may do that this week since I now have timing tape. When driving the car it feels more powerful than before. But I can't burnout. It looks pretty bad infront of my buddy with his Ford, and he can burnout no problem. Am I doing something wrong? Would it help if the torqueflight was in "1st" instead of "drive". This probably sounds really bad, but I figured someone here would have a solution. Thanks
 
Well maybe once it is rolling it is a stonger pulling 318, I would bet on it with what you have done. But I would bet you lost that just of idle low end torque a stocker small 318 cam has. What do you have for gearing and a transmission Auto-Stick and or if auto what is the convertor stall?
 
The gear is a 8 1/4 with a 2:76 gear. Probably the original rear end. I am hoping to upgrade that sometime down the road. I know its more for economy. The transmission is the original 904 torqueflight. It was rebuilt with the engine and just has a stock replacment convertor. I don't know what the stock stall is. Thats a field that I don't know too well. When the timing gets to its best spot, maybe that will make a difference. Just about any car can spin the tires. Something has to be wrong somewhere. If it could burnout out before, it should be able to do it now effortlessly.
 
I have to wonder if it isnt the converter. I say this because you say "it wont spin but it sounds good while trying", so if the motor doesnt sound as if it is laboring or working hard, then maybe the power isnt being transfered to the trans very well. May be working well enough when not under an extreme load, but when you really get on it, it may be slipping like crazy. My Valiant did that for a while then I just replaced all of that stuff anyhow. I dont know if this is the issue but it may be worth testing a few things to see.
 
I had a similar problem with my car, the carb was not tuned quite right, I did not have a big enough pump cam. I installed a bigger on and it made a huge difference. Holley carb.
 
One other thing. Was your cam installed "straight up" or was it advanced any? The power band of the 340 cam at just above Idle might not be able to break the tires loose. Did you try to race the Mercury Comet before and after the rebuild to compare?
One other thing, If your spinning, your gonna lose the race. It's better to grab some traction and go, then to sit and spin for a few seconds.

Your combination of cam, Intake, and ported heads probably breathe better up in the rpm band, above 2300rpm or more. add that to a low stall in your convertor, and highway gears. When brake-torqueing it trying to break the rear tires loose, your not up high enough in rpm's to do the job.

You may want to buy a line lock if your dead set about doing burn outs. A higher stall, more gear in the rearend, a line lock, all will help you to spin the tires.
 
I am not sure how the cam was installed. What does it mean to be advance? I have never raced the Comet in the 1/4 but he has, and runs low 16's. I know having my tires spinning would only decrease the "et" times if I took it to the track, but this isn't a race car, just a street cruiser. I expected the tires to just engulf in smoke. Because a friend of mine was telling me I need a better gear, like a 3:23 at least. A 2:76 will not give me any traction with whats been done to my engine. Besdies I need new leaf springs since mine are in pretty bad shape.
 
Quick question. Did you have stock 318 heads worked on, or did you replace heads with 340 heads? Your friend is right about switching gears to 3:23 suregrip. Mike
 
The heads are the original 318 heads. They had a 3 angle valve job and ported for better flow. The car takes off pretty good from a stop and sounds great. But won't do a damn thing as far as burning out. I know it needs a better gear, but that is something a little down the road. Maybe late this summer, if I happen to see a good deal at the Mopar Nats.
 
Everything you did to your engine (except possibly the pistons) took away torque but added top end hp. Porting heads usually looses a little low speed torque. The bigger cam lost some low speed torque also. And those 2.76 gears are just pure economy gears. Not anything for performance (or burning tires). You deffinetly need a set of 3.23 or 3.55 gears. If you go with a higher stall converter that will help even more. Something in the neighborhood of 2000-2200 will help. That will wake it up. If you do those 2 things your bud's Comet won't hold a candle to how your Duster will run. And you'll be able to smoke those hides down to nothin.
 
7duster4 said:
The gear is a 8 1/4 with a 2:76 gear. Probably the original rear end. I am hoping to upgrade that sometime down the road. I know its more for economy. The transmission is the original 904 torqueflight. It was rebuilt with the engine and just has a stock replacment convertor. I don't know what the stock stall is. Thats a field that I don't know too well. When the timing gets to its best spot, maybe that will make a difference. Just about any car can spin the tires. Something has to be wrong somewhere. If it could burnout out before, it should be able to do it now effortlessly.
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You sure it has an 8 1/4 rear? it may still be the 7 1/4, but nevertheless, the gearing is hurting. The 2.76 is very high and will hurt low end, but it still should do something. I would have to agree with the prospect that the converter may be on the fritz. If you replace it, find something like a 2,000 stall setup. It will work as good or better than what you have now, and better when and if you find a 3.23 gear.

Oh, BTW, what does your buddy have for a rear? What year Comet? If its a 70's Comet, I would say you've got him covered in the 1/4 right now. I would think you could muster at least a mid to high 15 second time and put that ford in its place. :thumbup:
 
Fishy is on it. More gear and stall.
The 340 cam isn't that great on low speed torque ethier.

My 318 has been rebuilt with 340 cam, ported heads, edelbrock intake and 4-barrel, pistons, 340 valve springs, etc...
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What intake and carb? Whats the compresion ratio?
 
I have a sim. set up in heads (sorry about jumping in on this thread)
318 heads port and polish (intake and exhaust) job, a 3 angle valve job and decked 20 thou.

I was told by the guy that he was told " it would loose low end torqe to if to much was taken out" so they did a "Happy medium".
will i run into the same problem
I have sim set up but 262 cam and 8 3/4 w/ 3.23
 
My intake is a edelbrock performer with a edelbrock 500cfm 4-barrel. The compression ration is above 9.0. My buddys Comet is a 1977 with a 302 built to pretty much stock specs. Except same intake and carb as me. His rear end is like a 2:80 or something like that. Not much different than mine. I have driven his car before and can tell it doesn't pack a punch like mine. He has only ran in the low 16's. I also noticed that my leaf springs need adjusting. I have shackels and the springs are at the bottem. They need to be raised a couple notches becasue when I take off, they bend opposite of what they should. So that probably hurts traction a lot.
 
7duster4 said:
My intake is a edelbrock performer with a edelbrock 500cfm 4-barrel. The compression ration is above 9.0. My buddys Comet is a 1977 with a 302 built to pretty much stock specs. Except same intake and carb as me. His rear end is like a 2:80 or something like that. Not much different than mine. I have driven his car before and can tell it doesn't pack a punch like mine. He has only ran in the low 16's. I also noticed that my leaf springs need adjusting. I have shackels and the springs are at the bottem. They need to be raised a couple notches becasue when I take off, they bend opposite of what they should. So that probably hurts traction a lot.
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I think the 500 eddy is a little small for your set-up.
 
I agree. Then again, the intake is a bottle neck as well.
RPM and a larger carb. 650 would do it. Holley or AVS.
 
One question is did you have the heads milled or check to see how far the pistons are in the hole?-moderate compression is a must have imo for any kind of cam in a small engine and usually a untouched 318 is on the lowside.I agree about the stall and gears-the engine needs to overcome the intial load of the drivetrain and get into its sweet spot.Your on track with timing,14-16 initial w/34-36 total is ballpark and I would check to make sure your not getting any hessitation from the carb,a poorly tuned carb will really ruin the lowend performance.
 
Just a side note,I know of two 318s running low 14s with mild stalls,unported but milled heads and the rest of their combos are very similar to yours.
 
The heads have been slighlty milled. The piston is at "0" deck. My engine rebuilder was talking about how 318's suffer from compression due to the piston being too far down. I used the performer not the RPM becasue I have the stock heads. If I had 360 heads then I would go with the performer RPM due to the larger ports. Besides, the intake was free. I had a 570cfm Holley Street Avenger at the first startup but had to be removed becasue was junk. Dumping way too much fuel. I bought it off ebay and thought I was getting a good deal, apparently not. Someone basically drilled larger holes in it. Its ruined. I purchased the 500cfm from a friend who had it on his 318, since he put a 340 in his car, he sold it to me in almost new condition. Next week I am taking the car to my other buddy where we will advance the timing more (Probably between 34-36 degrees) and possible re-jetting. Like I said, one day i'll have a better rear end set up.
 
Its really not worth fixing, its now going to be used as decoration, or a lawn ornement lol. I have been happy with my edelbrock, besides everyone seems to agree that holleys need to be worked on more. Since I don't know much abour fixing carburators, my edelbrock shouldn't have any problems.
 
So lemme get this straight, you floor both pedals and the engine "sounds real good" but the rear tires will not break loose. Do you have a tachometer? I would love to know what RPM you are pulling when all this nothing is happening. Bear in mind the factory converter behind a 340 stalled at about 2300 RPM. The stock 318 converter stalled at about 1800 RPM.

My guess is you have two things going on here, first with the stock 2.76 gears you aren't exactly putting a lot of torque to the wheels. 3.55 gears will help you greatly and not hurt fuel economy too much if at all. Second and more importantly, I think either your converter or transmission is junk. I would suspect the converter.

How wide are your rear tires? Do you have a Sure-Grip? (not common on 318 cars with 2.76 geared 7 1/4" rears, but it was an option). Bottom line a stock 318 2 barrel would roast the original 195 rear tires. You have something going on.

Oh and when doing Torqueflight burnouts Always start in 1st but shift into 2nd BEFORE you lift off the gas. Not doing this can trash the sprag and result in a massive transmission failure.
 
I have a tach, but I can't remember where it was at. It's probably the gears. I do not have a sure grip. Just 2:76 and a 8 1/4. A couple other things can be causing this. The engine only had about 500miles on it, maybe it needs to be broken in more. But I think it will be resolved greatly when my timing gets to where it should be. Which I have been told should be between 30-34. That will happen this week. Then gears down the road. Putting a new convertor in is not an option. Not just the money part but the effort it will take. The transmission was just rebuilt with a stock replacement convertor and I can't pull everything out just for a new convertor. Like I said, gears will be easier and better in the end. Im looking forward to it! :headbang:
 
Timing can be eliminated in 30 seconds without a light. Advance the distributor a fair amount and see if there is an improvement. Unless your timing is WAY retarded, this will likely be of no help. It sounds like your transmission or converter is junk.
 
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