Converting to alcohol

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Coyote Jack

Coyote Jack

Member #55, I'm old
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I know some of you racers and engine builders would know this.
What all would have to be done to convert to alcohol or can I even do it? I presently run 10.58 to 1 compression with magnum heads.

Jack
 
Jack,
First you will have to make up your mind as if you want to run injected or carburated alcohol as the fuel systems are totally different.
For carb. alcohol you will need a fuel pump that will handel alcohol and a regulator that will flow enough. You will need at least 1/2 line or #8 braided steel. The reg. will have to be set so that under WOT that the pressure won't drop below 8 psi with G force applied. So this is what you'll need
1. A carb that will run Alcohol
2. A fuel pump that will deliver more than needed and is compatiable
3. A fuel line thats large enough to keep volume to the carb under high loads
4. A regulator that will flow enough through it to supply the carb.
5. A large enough tank to get the distance you want to go

Depending on the heads that are used will determine the amount of fuel that will be used over a given time, larger ports req. more fuel and smaller ports req. less fuel. Most of the time Alcohol will use 1 1/2 times the amount of gas, so if you burn 1/2 gal in the 1/4 then you'll burn 3/4 gal of alcohol in the 1/4.

Now for injected Alcohol you'll have to have the tank mounted in the front of the car as the pumps won't and aren't designed to push they are designed to pull fuel. So for mech. inj. the lines are going to have to be larger than that of the carb. type as the pumps require more volume, so this is what you'll need
1. A complete mech. FI system like Enderle or Rons, or Hilborn
2. #12 or #10 line min.
3. Fuel shut off and cables if not with the system
4. Fuel pump if not with the system
5. Your intake machined for FI nozzels
6. 1 or 2 fuel by-passes depending on the system
7. A set of fuel pills to regulate amount of fuel needed to run engine
8. A fuel tank that will accept a fuel return line or lines
9. A belt drive pump setup or the necessary hardware to run a cam drive
10. Plenty of $$$$

A alcohol carb setup will run about $1,000.00 - $1,200.00 with the pump line and regulator, and carb.
A mech FI setup will run depending on the system anywhere from $1,600.00 to $3,000.00 and some are higher than this.
Your engine will need at least 150 psi to run alcohol and no less so 10:1 should be the lowest compression. Then you'll need a Ignition hot enough to burn alcohol the more fuel the hotter the ign. has to be. For a supercharged Alcohol engine we use a Mag 44 from MSD this means that each plug will see 44 amps of juice when fired but we also burn 7-8 gals per run and in 5 seconds. Nitro cars run twin 44's as nitro is harder to light, also with this much amperage the timing has to be reduced to 26 - 28 degrees total or high speed engine dissassembly will occur.
Hope this helps
 
Another good site is Nitromater.com, here you can actually talk to the nitro fuel and alcohol racers that drive and tune the racecars you watch on TV, along with Prostock motorcycle and prostock cars and it's a 1 time fee of $1.00 and you have to use your real name so there isn't any BS.
 
O.K.

This would be a street setup in my Demon. I currently run a 650 Speed Demon, but I know this would have to go. My current cylinder pressures are all above 165 and average about 172. I was going to plum my whole system with steel braid this winter anyway so that is not in the equation. My current ignition is all MSD. 8534 dizzy, blaster 2 coil and 6AL. My heads have 2.02 intakes and have had some major port work done. My cam is a Comp Cams 280H and I have 1.6 rockers. If this stuff is good to go then I guess I am looking at an electric fuel pump, regulator and carb. One question I have is would I have to increase the cfm of the carb? Another is, I am not talking E85. I am thinking 180 proof alcohol. I'm looking at the feasablity of setting up my own still and making enough of it to power all of my vehicles, but the Demon comes first. hehe

I will have a look at those sites later this week. We had a death in the family this weekend and I'm really tied up for a few days.


Jack
 
Jack,
First let me say that my heart go's out to you and your family under these trying times. If you need someone to talk to you have my phone #.

As for your engine combo. it is just like the one I have in my Dart now, and the smallest carb that runs alcohol I think is about 850 cfm's. Although this type of alcohol really isn't feasaiable for everyday use it can be done. But you'll have to have a 40 gal tank to really get anywhere as mileage will suck and hope that you dont get too far away from your still.
 
When you run alcohol, usually you build alcohol specific motors. To get the real benefit you need to have 14:1 or so compression. I wish that E-85 was available more around here. A 12.5:1 street motor with a healthy roller cam would be more street friendly than a 10:1 gas motor.
 
Thanks guy's, I appreciate the thoughts. The funeral was today and now it is time for the family to heal.


I new I should have bought that 12.5 race engine when I had the chance. It was cheap by today's standards and a great engine. All of the articles I have been reading say it is best if you at least 12 to 1 compression if you want to run alcohol. Lower compressions will run it but not as effeciently. Short of replaceing the pistons in mine, I can't get that kind of compression.

I'm not worried about getting to far away Bobby. The longest trip I have taken is 90 miles one way with this car. Mostly just cruising around close to home. Next year I will take it to the track on a trailer. The track is 3 hours away.

Jack
 
I think that the problem comes that he's running a small block and with that kind of compression he'll have to have the block O ringed as 10 head bolts won't stand it for long. He's at about his safe point now with the cylinder pressure he has. I suppose he could run a big cam with lots of overlap and higher compression pistons but then you use on to combat the other, why squeeze it tighter and then bleed it off, just doesn't make sense to me IMO.
 
I agree Bobby, especially seeing as I didn't really want to go inside the engine again. Maybe this could be a project for next year. I still have the 318 block and the 360 heads and crank. I could build your 349 design to burn alky and drop it in as a new engine and then sell the current 360 to recoup some of the costs.

Jack
 
Jack,
Wait till you see the engine that I just finished as it's a 322 CI engine on alcohol. I'll send you a PM. Hopefully we'll get to run this weekend and then you'll have actual results.
 
I got the PM Bobby. Those are some big numbers, especially with that mild of a cam. I was also impressed with where the numbers were in the rpm range. Not spinning it to high to get them.

Jack
 
You can get this engine from me if you like it, but wait til I get the video and get it posted.
 
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