Custom Cam Position Sensors - General Inquiry and Discussion, Feedback Appreciated

[DNasty777]

Hey guys, I wanted to share with you guys a few designs for cam position sensors I've come up with and get some feedback. The Holley dual sync is $580 and is extremely bulky if you aren't going to run wires like a standard distributor. I’m running an LS coil-near-plug setup and I really wanted something with a much lower profile. Below you'll find a picture of three designs, each at different heights and price points. Please share your thoughts.

Design 1 - This is a fully custom design utilizing a Honeywell Hall Effect speed sensor. This would be the most expensive option but I'd consider the sensor bulletproof. Total height of unit is 1.4" above china wall.

Design 2 - This is a design utilizing a '99-04 Ford Mustang V6 Cam Synchronizer body; gutted for use with a custom shaft, adapter and hold down. Total height of unit is 2.2" above china wall.

Design 3 - This basically just an adapter to use a '00-04 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L Cam Synchronizer and sensor. Total height of unit is 3.9" above china wall.


I can expand more on pricing and assembly further, but I'd like to see what everyone's thoughts are so far.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[DNasty777]

Design 1 as a finished product I'm thinking would be around $400. This would get you a finished unit that is ready to run. The sensor on this unit is badass and like half the cost of the unit. If there's enough demand I could do another revision of this design with a cheaper sensor, but the dimensions would have to go up to fit it as the current sensor is about the smallest self-contained unit you can find without getting into a custom sensor.

Design 2 & 3 I'm thinking would be around $150 and $75 retail, respectively. But you'd have to source your own Sensor and Synchronizer.

Now with the tariffs being all over the place it's hard to nail down what my cost for production and parts would be so these are preliminary numbers. I'd like to find someone local to do the machining, but it just doesn't seem feasible in the small runs I can afford to front.

If you think I'm on crack with these prices please let me know. I could potentially offer some aspects of these in a 3D printed material and that would greatly cut cost but I haven't personally tested that option yet as I'm a fan of doing these out of 7075 billet.

 

[MadScientistMat]

On a slant six, you can read the fuel pump lobe off the cam with a sensor run through a block off plate. Is that feasible on a V8?

 

[DNasty777]

On a slant six, you can read the fuel pump lobe off the cam with a sensor run through a block off plate. Is that feasible on a V8?

Yes that could work if you are running an LA timing cover and a long snout cam with the fuel pump eccentric. My motor is a magnum though and I'd like to retain the magnum timing cover.

 

[racerjoe]

Hey guys, I wanted to share with you guys a few designs for cam position sensors I've come up with and get some feedback. The Holley dual sync is $580 and is extremely bulky if you aren't going to run wires like a standard distributor. I’m running an LS coil-near-plug setup and I really wanted something with a much lower profile. Below you'll find a picture of three designs, each at different heights and price points. Please share your thoughts.

Design 1 - This is a fully custom design utilizing a Honeywell Hall Effect speed sensor. This would be the most expensive option but I'd consider the sensor bulletproof. Total height of unit is 1.4" above china wall.

Design 2 - This is a design utilizing a '99-04 Ford Mustang V6 Cam Synchronizer body; gutted for use with a custom shaft, adapter and hold down. Total height of unit is 2.2" above china wall.

Design 3 - This basically just an adapter to use a '00-04 Jeep Wrangler 4.0L Cam Synchronizer and sensor. Total height of unit is 3.9" above china wall.


I can expand more on pricing and assembly further, but I'd like to see what everyone's thoughts are so far.

Thanks,

Dave

Awesome work here. Where were these options 8 years ago when I was doing my LA?! Good luck! FYI. I think you should make a big block option as well. They could definitely benefit from the low profile design.

 

[DNasty777]

Awesome work here. Where were these options 8 years ago when I was doing my LA?! Good luck! FYI. I think you should make a big block option as well. They could definitely benefit from the low profile design.

I thought AR Engineering already made those, but I just checked their site and don’t see it listed anymore. It can definitely be an option in the future.

 

[DionR]

Now with the tariffs being all over the place it's hard to nail down what my cost for production and parts would be so these are preliminary numbers. I'd like to find someone local to do the machining, but it just doesn't seem feasible in the small runs I can afford to front.

Have you looked at places like Xometry? I know SendCutSend is working on machined parts and not just laser cut and/or bent stuff but not sure if they are accepting designs yet even for costing. There are others as well.

My only thought is I like parts I can buy at a local store if I need to replace them. Not an absolute, sometimes there just aren't options, and sometimes the OE options aren't very good. But sure nice to have the option to replace a part with something from a parts store if you are on a road trip rather than wait for a part to be shipped someplace.

I like the first one best just because of the size. But if I was building an LA and needed one it would probably be the last one just because it uses an unmodified OE part.

 

[DionR]

I thought AR Engineering already made those, but I just checked their site and don’t see it listed anymore. It can definitely be an option in the future.

I think SD something was the original source years ago, but I don't think they are around anymore. Maybe they have been gone for more than 8 years and why Joe didn't see the option then?

 

[DionR]

Ah, it was SD Concept Engineering that sold the adapters. Their website is still up, but I don't find the adapter anymore and most of what they offer is shirts and hoodies.

 

[67Dart273]

For "us low budget" guys, just 3D print a stub cap for a 5.2/5.9 magnum distributor

I believe (not sure) you can also grind off all but one tooth of a reluctor

 

[TT5.9mag]

Fantastic work, I will add my 2c and trust me that’s all it’s worth. Design 1 is a winner and you should focus on it. If you can reduce the cost 15-20% I think it puts you in a good place to sell them and they’ll move. If you can adapt that same sensor and style to a big block drive it’s winner winner chicken dinner.

 

[racerjoe]

I think SD something was the original source years ago, but I don't think they are around anymore. Maybe they have been gone for more than 8 years and why Joe didn't see the option then?

I had the SD adapter. I more so referring to just having options. I had actually drawn one up and was getting quotes from machinists to make one for me when I ran across theirs. It was only $50 when I bought it.

 

[DNasty777]

Have you looked at places like Xometry? I know SendCutSend is working on machined parts and not just laser cut and/or bent stuff but not sure if they are accepting designs yet even for costing. There are others as well.

My only thought is I like parts I can buy at a local store if I need to replace them. Not an absolute, sometimes there just aren't options, and sometimes the OE options aren't very good. But sure nice to have the option to replace a part with something from a parts store if you are on a road trip rather than wait for a part to be shipped someplace.

I like the first one best just because of the size. But if I was building an LA and needed one it would probably be the last one just because it uses an unmodified OE part.

Yeah, I've gotten quotes from Xometry but they are astronomical, we're talking nearly 3x for internationally manufactured and 10x for US manufactured. I am working on getting quotes from SendCutSend, I've used them a bunch for sheet metal parts but their machining services don't have the tooling yet for some of the features on the parts.

Also I totally understand where you're coming from in regards to finding replacement parts from a local autoparts store. That was my initial thought as well and the reason my first two designs (Designs 2 and 3) utilized "Off the shelf" sensors/sync bodies. I just couldn't get the form factor I needed out of them.

Fantastic work, I will add my 2c and trust me that’s all it’s worth. Design 1 is a winner and you should focus on it. If you can reduce the cost 15-20% I think it puts you in a good place to sell them and they’ll move. If you can adapt that same sensor and style to a big block drive it’s winner winner chicken dinner.

Thanks, I can definitely port the design over to the B and RB blocks, I just need a couple dimensions or a used distributor. I'm also working on getting the design a little more optimized for machining as I think I can shave some cost in that aspect.

 

[DionR]

Yeah, I've gotten quotes from Xometry but they are astronomical, we're talking nearly 3x for internationally manufactured and 10x for US manufactured.

Last time I got a quote from Xometry, seemed like quantity was huge. If I had several parts, prices were more reasonable. But it's been awhile.

Seemed like there was someone else out there doing online machining. But drawing a blank now.

 

[DNasty777]

For "us low budget" guys, just 3D print a stub cap for a 5.2/5.9 magnum distributor

I believe (not sure) you can also grind off all but one tooth of a reluctor

Yup that's absolutely an option, I just really wanted a slick looking low profile option and didn't mind going through the effort and money to prototype something a little more "refined". This was all spurred on by wanting to stick two Duetsch bulkheads through the firewall directly behind the distributor tower for the engine harness.

 

[DNasty777]

If anyone is interested in more info on the sensor I'm using in Design 1, it's a Honeywell SNDH-H3P-G01

Link to the spec sheet: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/187/HWSC_S_A0013047930_1-3073368.pdf

And the Mouser product page: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/785-SNDH-H3P-G01


I'm also going to rework Design 1 to use the much cheaper ZF GS100701 sensor. That should bring the price down considerably.

 

[DionR]

If anyone is interested in more info on the sensor I'm using in Design 1, it's a Honeywell SNDH-H3P-G01

Link to the spec sheet: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/187/HWSC_S_A0013047930_1-3073368.pdf

And the Mouser product page: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/785-SNDH-H3P-G01


I'm also going to rework Design 1 to use the much cheaper ZF GS100701 sensor. That should bring the price down considerably.

Interesting, that's not what I was expect you used in that setup. So you must have your own tone ring and such machined into it. I'm liking it.

 

[racerjoe]

If anyone is interested in more info on the sensor I'm using in Design 1, it's a Honeywell SNDH-H3P-G01

Link to the spec sheet: https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/187/HWSC_S_A0013047930_1-3073368.pdf

And the Mouser product page: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/785-SNDH-H3P-G01


I'm also going to rework Design 1 to use the much cheaper ZF GS100701 sensor. That should bring the price down considerably.

DIY autotune has an inexpensive hall sensor. I've used them for wheel speed sensors sensing the back side of the wheel stud. Zero problems with them. Perhaps too big for what you are doing though.


https://www.diyautotune.com/product/crank-position-sensor-hall-effect-tab-mount/

 

[DionR]

Ironically, I was watching this video during lunch today. I wonder if whatever they are using to 3D print stuff would work for you?

Vision Miner | Industrial 3D Printing - PEEK, ULTEM, PPSU & More

Specialized in High-Temperature, Chemically Resistant, Functional Engineering Thermoplastics in Aerospace, Medical, Oil & Gas, Energy, and Defense - We sell 3D Printers, Tools to Make it Easier, and have a Print Service & Consulting if you want it done for you!

visionminer.com

Might be even more expensive, but maybe not?

 

[DNasty777]

I've taken the feedback and revised my design, I'll have a "Design 4" prototype hopefully within two weeks.

Question for the megasquirt guys, do those ECUs have internal pullup resistors for the cam sensor signal?

 

[racerjoe]

I've taken the feedback and revised my design, I'll have a "Design 4" prototype hopefully within two weeks.

Question for the megasquirt guys, do those ECUs have internal pullup resistors for the cam sensor signal?

I have an old MS3. It has some internal potentiometers, but it didn’t have enough range so I added external pull ups in the harness. They are making new versions with sealed cases (Amp EFI and MS Pro). I’m not sure how those are setup but I’d imagine they still require an external pull up.

 

[DNasty777]

I have an old MS3. It has some internal potentiometers, but it didn’t have enough range so I added external pull ups in the harness. They are making new versions with sealed cases (Amp EFI and MS Pro). I’m not sure how those are setup but I’d imagine they still require an external pull up.

Thanks, it looks like the newer ones require external pullups as well.

 

[DNasty777]

The prototype for Revision 4 came in. I like the direction this is going and it gets the price closer to $325.

A few changes in parts and design:

• Allows clocking of the sensor so you can fine tune the timing of trigger.
• Smaller DTM connector
• Cheaper ZF hall effect sensor

 

[DNasty777]

Final revision is here and assembled. In the meantime, I'm looking for someone to trial this. My car won't be running anytime soon so if anyone is interested, let me know.

I've redesigned the top to better retain the hold down screws and added slots for fine tuning of the sensor position.