Custom mechanical fan builder

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Velocity111

Velocity111

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Due to only having 1" between my radiator and water pump pulley, I've tried a number of "plan B" cooling setups with no luck, and am slowly resigning myself to a less than desirable option - relocating the radiator forward to create some room. MY preference is to install an electric fan, so I'm getting full CFM even at idle, but I'm open to any configuration that will net me at min. of 4000 CFM. Motor is an FHO 572" Hemi in a 72' Dodge Dart.

Before I relocate the radiator, I'm looking at a couple options not knowing if they're even feasible:

1.I'm currently am running a March pulley deluxe system, and am looking at other pulley system mfgs to see if I can find another set up which is shorter in depth to try and create some room. I've found CV Products and Jones Racing Products - any other mfg suggestions? (While this may help, this won't solve the problem).

2. Custom built mechanical fan. Assuming there a shop that build a custom fan, if I could find one (have one made) that has a blade leading edge no farther forward than the mounting center plate, there is enough room for the fins to sweep back behind that line without hitting the PS pump, etc. I have not found a single shop that can custom build a fan. Any suggestions are appreciated.

If there are any other options I'm all ears. I'm working with 10lbs in a 5lbs bag, so I'm not surprised I've come up against this, just through the solving would be easier.

Thanks in advance....

IMG_0699.jpg
 
Velocity111 said:
Due to only having 1" between my radiator and water pump pulley, I've tried a number of "plan B" cooling setups with no luck, and am slowly resigning myself to a less than desirable option - relocating the radiator forward to create some room. MY preference is to install an electric fan, so I'm getting full CFM even at idle, but I'm open to any configuration that will net me at min. of 4000 CFM. Motor is an FHO 572" Hemi in a 72' Dodge Dart.

Before I relocate the radiator, I'm looking at a couple options not knowing if they're even feasible:

1.I'm currently am running a March pulley deluxe system, and am looking at other pulley system mfgs to see if I can find another set up which is shorter in depth to try and create some room. I've found CV Products and Jones Racing Products - any other mfg suggestions? (While this may help, this won't solve the problem).

2. Custom built mechanical fan. Assuming there a shop that build a custom fan, if I could find one (have one made) that has a blade leading edge no farther forward than the mounting center plate, there is enough room for the fins to sweep back behind that line without hitting the PS pump, etc. I have not found a single shop that can custom build a fan. Any suggestions are appreciated.

If there are any other options I'm all ears. I'm working with 10lbs in a 5lbs bag, so I'm not surprised I've come up against this, just through the solving would be easier.

Thanks in advance....

View attachment 1715557309
Click to expand...
Man that is tight, with out relocating the radiator I do not know what fan will fit in there.
I have read on here where some members were using OEM twin electric fans.
You may want to research the forum. I was lucky with my B body 512 stroker to used a 18 mopar fan with a Griffin radiator which worked great, no fan clutch.
Perhaps someone will chime in with an OEM fan for ya.
 
How thick of fan can you swing in there?
Youve got the 1" btwn rad and pump...how much more room behind the pump before you hit belt/pully?
 
Is that a 3 or 4 row radiator? You can cool the same thing......and possibly better with a 2 row with 1.25" flues and pick up a lot more space.
 
Leave radiator location as is, and put a monster sized electric pusher fan on the front ??
 
moparmat2000 said:
Leave radiator location as is, and put a monster sized electric pusher fan on the front ??
Click to expand...

That is actually my current set up, which unfortunately after 15 min of driving puts me at 200 degrees and climbing. The pusher just isn't gonna flow the CFM I'm gonna need, I tried it and hoped, but no good.
 
Velocity111 said:
That is actually my current set up, which unfortunately after 15 min of driving puts me at 200 degrees and climbing. The pusher just isn't gonna flow the CFM I'm gonna need, I tried it and hoped, but no good.
Click to expand...

Shouldn't need a fan turning while "driving".. Or does your driving include lots of stop and go or idling?
 
Velocity111 said:
Due to only having 1" between my radiator and water pump pulley, I've tried a number of "plan B" cooling setups with no luck, and am slowly resigning myself to a less than desirable option - relocating the radiator forward to create some room. MY preference is to install an electric fan, so I'm getting full CFM even at idle, but I'm open to any configuration that will net me at min. of 4000 CFM. Motor is an FHO 572" Hemi in a 72' Dodge Dart.

Before I relocate the radiator, I'm looking at a couple options not knowing if they're even feasible:

1.I'm currently am running a March pulley deluxe system, and am looking at other pulley system mfgs to see if I can find another set up which is shorter in depth to try and create some room. I've found CV Products and Jones Racing Products - any other mfg suggestions? (While this may help, this won't solve the problem).

2. Custom built mechanical fan. Assuming there a shop that build a custom fan, if I could find one (have one made) that has a blade leading edge no farther forward than the mounting center plate, there is enough room for the fins to sweep back behind that line without hitting the PS pump, etc. I have not found a single shop that can custom build a fan. Any suggestions are appreciated.

If there are any other options I'm all ears. I'm working with 10lbs in a 5lbs bag, so I'm not surprised I've come up against this, just through the solving would be easier.

Thanks in advance....

View attachment 1715557309
Click to expand...

THAT CAR HAS AS MUCH ROOM AS, a
IMG_0474 (1).JPG
68 barracuda , and the hemiroid aint no longer than a 440, ur radiator looks too thick to start with , or you engine aint located right . A mech. belt driven fan is worth about 8-ish degrees over a clutch type fan in mine , I have tried almost every combination I can think of , except a factory elec fan from a ford contour , which I cant mount because of the side tanks on mine .
A 28x19 crossflow, w/ 1 1/4'' fins (2 row) , over driven water pump, hi flow stat , 17'' clutch fan , water wetter is barely adequate , but can go to an 18'' fan , just havent found one w/ 2 1/4'' pitch , like the 17 , I`m running ----- I think I could get a little wider rad. in it w. a little work , but not enough diff , to make it worthwhile . If I was starting over , I`d try a 29x19 crossflow .
I havent opened the cradle opening up to expose the tanks either-------
 
Velocity111 said:
That is actually my current set up, which unfortunately after 15 min of driving puts me at 200 degrees and climbing. The pusher just isn't gonna flow the CFM I'm gonna need, I tried it and hoped, but no good.
Click to expand...


I don’t think you have a fan issue. The radiator is about as good as it gets. You either have a restrictive thermostat or you are turning the water pump way too slow.

The aftermarket has a hard on for under driving the water pump to “make” more HP but in the end, it’s a power loser.

Measure your pulley’s and see how fast the water pump is turning.

Arguably, the best thermostat out there is the Stewart Components stuff.
 
you can fit 10# in if you stack it carefully.
for sure check your pulley diameters. should be a substantial difference, could be an inch or more.
checking fan stash only 2 are even close to 2" thick.
18" factory 5 blade flex and a 18" factory 7 blade fixed are both just under 2-1/8".
another was 20" dia and 2-5/8" the rest were over 3".

whats the gap btwn the ps pump pulley center and rad core?

if the ps belt was behind the wp belt might make more backswing room
 
Phreakish said:
Shouldn't need a fan turning while "driving".. Or does your driving include lots of stop and go or idling?
Click to expand...

He shouldn’t need a fan if he’s driving more than 30mph or so for any length of time, but if he’s just stop light to stop light for awhile he absolutely will. Not enough information there to blame the fan.

yellow rose said:
I don’t think you have a fan issue. The radiator is about as good as it gets. You either have a restrictive thermostat or you are turning the water pump way too slow.

The aftermarket has a hard on for under driving the water pump to “make” more HP but in the end, it’s a power loser.

Measure your pulley’s and see how fast the water pump is turning.

Arguably, the best thermostat out there is the Stewart Components stuff.
Click to expand...

Not nearly enough information to blame the fan or exonerate the radiator. There are other threads on this board about issues with the Griffen’s, I’ll look them up. But either way there aren’t enough details on the performance to blame anything yet.

The pulley diameter is a great thing to check. There are also two different vane arrangements for the water pump, being HD or standard, and corresponding pulley ratios that need to be matched to those pumps.

The thermostat restriction thing is so unlikely to be the issue it’s almost not worth talking about.

kursplat said:
have you checked out 72bluNblu's build? looks like you might be able to go with the contour fans
Click to expand...

The contour fans need more than 3” from the radiator to the water pump nose at least, the fan assembly itself is 3”. It’s 3.5” to the backs of the motors but they’re offset so they’re not lined up with the pump.

Not sure why there’s only 1” of space available, but that doesn’t seem right at all. Isn’t there a water pump available that has a shorter nose on it?
 
72bluNblu said:
...Not sure why there’s only 1” of space available, but that doesn’t seem right at all. Isn’t there a water pump available that has a shorter nose on it?
Click to expand...
ya, doesn't look like just 1" from the pic, weird...i think he's on an HDK K frame so i doubt the motor's in the wrong place :lol: velocity111, did you get the radiator cleaned out?
 
you already have the same radiator, and as we discussed during initial mock-up, we could duplicate what is on my silver Duster.....but you would have to loose the serpentine set up. Old school, March pulleys (STD drive), 180 stat, 18" fan, shroud, and the dreaded V belt....does cool like a MFer,

IMO, nothing will cool it if whatever the substance found in your radiator / coolant is not completely flushed
 
yellow rose said:
I don’t think you have a fan issue. The radiator is about as good as it gets. You either have a restrictive thermostat or you are turning the water pump way too slow.

The aftermarket has a hard on for under driving the water pump to “make” more HP but in the end, it’s a power loser.

Measure your pulley’s and see how fast the water pump is turning.

Arguably, the best thermostat out there is the Stewart Components stuff.
Click to expand...


So the water pump is actually 30% over driven, so plenty happening there. I pulled the stat and installed one of the pucks so there is restricted flow for cooling, but no temp stat.
 
Jimacuda said:
you can fit 10# in if you stack it carefully.
for sure check your pulley diameters. should be a substantial difference, could be an inch or more.
checking fan stash only 2 are even close to 2" thick.
18" factory 5 blade flex and a 18" factory 7 blade fixed are both just under 2-1/8".
another was 20" dia and 2-5/8" the rest were over 3".

whats the gap btwn the ps pump pulley center and rad core?

if the ps belt was behind the wp belt might make more backswing room
Click to expand...


What site are you referring to? Do you have a link to fan stash? The gap I have is 1", not much to work with.
 
72bluNblu said:
He shouldn’t need a fan if he’s driving more than 30mph or so for any length of time, but if he’s just stop light to stop light for awhile he absolutely will. Not enough information there to blame the fan.
Not nearly enough information to blame the fan or exonerate the radiator. There are other threads on this board about issues with the Griffen’s, I’ll look them up. But either way there aren’t enough details on the performance to blame anything yet.

The pulley diameter is a great thing to check. There are also two different vane arrangements for the water pump, being HD or standard, and corresponding pulley ratios that need to be matched to those pumps.

The thermostat restriction thing is so unlikely to be the issue it’s almost not worth talking about.
The contour fans need more than 3” from the radiator to the water pump nose at least, the fan assembly itself is 3”. It’s 3.5” to the backs of the motors but they’re offset so they’re not lined up with the pump.

Not sure why there’s only 1” of space available, but that doesn’t seem right at all. Isn’t there a water pump available that has a shorter nose on it?
Click to expand...

I was told by the engine builder that a pusher fan simply won't work. Due to my space restriction i tried anyways, didn't work, and so I'm on to plan B. Pullies are all over driven so they're good. As an hemi conversion on an A body, we knew going in space would be tight all the way around, with the thicker Griffin radiator plus bigger motor, my clearance of 1" isn't totally unexpected - was hoping for more but ultimately not surprised. A water pump with a short snout may be an option, but change that and I'll have to change the entire belt system for the alt and PS pump as well, isn't not just change the water pump.
 
Velocity111 said:
So the water pump is actually 30% over driven, so plenty happening there. I pulled the stat and installed one of the pucks so there is restricted flow for cooling, but no temp stat.
Click to expand...
30%?! is that what march claims or did you measure and do the math?. the thermostat just sets the minimum temp and allows the motor to warm up faster. as long as it was working, it wasn't making the car run hot. you have a airflow at low speeds issue.

good luck
 
As I continue to evaluate option, HemiDenny made the suggestion of doing a custom radiator that sits in front of the support, not behind it. This would give me the space I need, not have to cut anything, and not force me to rework all the accessories and pulleys. This would also allow me to move to a puller system which really is what I need. i'm now looking to see what existing rads are out there that might fit, or do I really need to have a custom sized rad made? This strategy also has it's own issues, such as the center support bar behind the grill will need to be removed and a new support bar bent and installed to clear the new radiator location - but this is preferable to all the other options. Still exploring all options, but this one seems to be the most direct, with the smallest amount of mod work and cost, and highest chance for success.

Thoughts anyone?
 
HemiDenny said:
you already have the same radiator, and as we discussed during initial mock-up, we could duplicate what is on my silver Duster.....but you would have to loose the serpentine set up. Old school, March pulleys (STD drive), 180 stat, 18" fan, shroud, and the dreaded V belt....does cool like a MFer,

IMO, nothing will cool it if whatever the substance found in your radiator / coolant is not completely flushed
Click to expand...

What's the deal with the serpentine? His picture doesn't seem to show it causing any issues, the water pump mount is the farthest point forward even on the serpentine set ups. Mine is no different, the serpentine pulley doesn't limit the space any more than a V-belt unless I'm missing something.

The farthest point foward is still the heads of the bolts into the water pump snout, which is immediately behind the front face of the pulley.
img_5432-jpeg.jpg


Velocity111 said:
I was told by the engine builder that a pusher fan simply won't work. Due to my space restriction i tried anyways, didn't work, and so I'm on to plan B. Pullies are all over driven so they're good. As an hemi conversion on an A body, we knew going in space would be tight all the way around, with the thicker Griffin radiator plus bigger motor, my clearance of 1" isn't totally unexpected - was hoping for more but ultimately not surprised. A water pump with a short snout may be an option, but change that and I'll have to change the entire belt system for the alt and PS pump as well, isn't not just change the water pump.
Click to expand...

I don't know why a pusher fan couldn't work. If it moves enough CFM it doesn't matter. A pusher is a little less efficient because it's out there in the incoming air flow stream, but that's only an issue when it's not running.

kursplat said:
30%?! is that what march claims or did you measure and do the math?. the thermostat just sets the minimum temp and allows the motor to warm up faster. as long as it was working, it wasn't making the car run hot. you have a airflow at low speeds issue.

good luck
Click to expand...

30% is less overdriven than the factory AC cars. The standard cooling cars had a .95:1 ratio with an HD 8 blade pump, the AC cars had a 1.4:1 ratio with a 6 bladed pump. That's a 40% overdriven pump.
 
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