deck the block vs aftermarket pistons..

-

duster731

young gun
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
1,495
Reaction score
65
Location
Venus Texas
I have a 77 318 that's 8.5 to 1 cr ill be adding a set of 302 heads with 188-160 valves but would like to be in the barpark of 10 to 1 cr so what would be better to do deck the block or Aftermarket pistons...

If I deck the block how much would it cost and how would I know how much to take off, what else changes when decking the block other than pushrod length..

I know I can get kb pistons but that's around 300$

Over all I'm looking for more HP when I throw the 302 heads on and what is zero decking anyway? Thanks
 
It seems that most production blocks have decks that are over spec. The deck is measured from the crank center line to the top of the cylinder. The factory spec is 9.57", mine was 0.015 higher on one side then the other. I had them true the deck, it wasn't cut to get the 9.57 number. I'm running KB pistons and want to use it on the street. If you use KB pistons you have to have the assembly balanced, the KB's are lighter. If you use the KB pistons try to find a set of 308 heads with the 1.88 / 1.6 valves. It looks like you want to build a high rpm motor. Talk to a GOOD machinist, he'll tell you how to do it.

Take a good look at Sealed Power pistons. I did a search a while ago and found stock pistons with a 1.72 Compression height (Z285NP40) they are +.040 but I'm sure you can get them in 3.91 too. They are listed for 19.99 apiece!
 
Pistons are cheaper.

If you machine any deck surface it affects every surface.

When you deck the block, or mill the heads you also have to mill the intake.
Think about it, every surface is on an angle.

Change the angle of one, it changes the angle of everything.
 
Since you're dealing with a small block (10 head bolts), I'd recommend leaving the decks near stock, but have it decked to bring it to 9.6". Most will be within a few thousands of that spec, and doing so will not affect any other engine component.

I'm in the process of building a similar engine and the first thing I noticed was the pistons were .380 down the cylinder, which means it would have been lucky to make 7.0-1 compression and, yes, it was a DOG... The compression height on these pistons was a (shameful) 1.440, and without a piston upgrade, it'll be very difficult to make any decent power with it...and there's simply not enough material in the decks to get it anywhere near a zero deck height. It's getting new KB pistons...

For your car:

Optimal deck height will be 9.6", and you should have your machinist "true up" the decks to this dimension.

Half your stroke comes out to 1.655

Your rod length (ctr to ctr) is 6.125

9.6 - (1.655 + 6.125) gives you distance from wrist pin c/l to the top of the piston at TDC to attain zero deck.

9.6 minus 7.780 leaves you with ~ 1.820 for a compression height that will bring you to Zero deck - without factoring in a head gasket.

Zero deck means the flat surface of the piston is level/even with the blocks deck when at TDC, and it's preferred because it maximizes a concept called "quench". The more quench the better, and keeping your pistons near zero deck height will maximize quench. Large quench aids flame propagation and results in a more intense combustion cycle when coming off TDC.

Since you're looking for ~10-1 compression (same as the original 340's) you could run a standard Fel Pro gasket which, IIRC, is around .050-.055 thick, should put you in the ball park. Torque the stock head bolts using motor oil with the stock fasteners.

I hope this helps, but you really need to measure how far down in the block your current pistons reside. That will go a long way toward determining your path/expenses going forward. Let us know how it works out.

Southernman
 
aside from squaring up the decks and or obtaining the correct deck height 'which is a good idea'...i would want to mill the heads and not so much the blocks decks, when it comes to upping compression, of corse.. best would be buying the right pistons.
 
aside from squaring up the decks and or obtaining the correct deck height 'which is a good idea'...i would want to mill the heads and not so much the blocks decks, when it comes to upping compression, of corse.. best would be buying the right pistons.

unless its a slant!

yea if it were me mill the crap out of those heads and sell them when you get the new ones...
 
Well I have my new 302 heads sitting at home but when milling heads then id have to do the same to the intake and get shorter rods..... So so far I think Aftermarket pistons would be a good idea but is there any other pistons I can get without balancing the assembly
 
Well I have my new 302 heads sitting at home but when milling heads then id have to do the same to the intake and get shorter rods..... So so far I think Aftermarket pistons would be a good idea but is there any other pistons I can get without balancing the assembly

ummm... a set of pushrods are about 100 bucks...

after you buy a set of KB's for around 400 bucks, then have them press on and off think it as 200, balnce the whole thing for 400. you looking at over a thousand bucks easy...

mill the heads and intake might be 300 depending on how far...

and pushrods a 100 bucks... so i bet you can get away for half...
 
Well I have my new 302 heads sitting at home but when milling heads then id have to do the same to the intake and get shorter rods..... So so far I think Aftermarket pistons would be a good idea but is there any other pistons I can get without balancing the assembly

Duster, you are right about the heads. If your pistons are (like mine were) .300+ down the cylinder, you'll never be able to cut enough off the head to make it work.

You need to get a weight on your pistons and pins. The KB 167 is ~640 grams (piston and pin). If your piston and pins are in that range, then you could probably get away without the balance job, but that usually only runs about $125; decking the block ~ $75; boring the block if you go over size on the pistons (which I would do); ~$100; plus your rebuild parts, and you could have a strong running 318 for well under $1K.

Just for a point of reference, here's an article from Popular Hotrodding titled:

Mopar 318 Engine - Cheap as Dirt

415 hp from a Street 318
From the January, 2007 issue of Popular Hot Rodding
By Steve Dulcich

Here's the link. Steve Dulcich is a die hard Mopar guru.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/mopar/0667em_mopar_318_engine/index.html

Southernman

 
unless its a slant!

yea if it were me mill the crap out of those heads and sell them when you get the new ones...

Yes a slant is a different story, but thats not the the topic...and really...in the long run you would also be better off with the right and lighter weight pistons



Well I have my new 302 heads sitting at home but when milling heads then id have to do the same to the intake and get shorter rods..... So so far I think Aftermarket pistons would be a good idea but is there any other pistons I can get without balancing the assembly

You pick up half a point [off the top of my head thinking]with about a 4cc decrease in chamber size.
 
Yes a slant is a different story, but thats not the the topic...and really...in the long run you would also be better off with the right and lighter weight pistons


well yea but i think you have to run the k1's in order to use them... not 100% though
 
-
Back
Top