Did my 727 just die on me?

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straightlinespeed

straightlinespeed

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
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I took my car for a drive today. Everything was good when I left the house. about 2 miles down the road I had to slow and turn onto a different street. When I turned the car downshifted to 1st (normal for this turn). When I went to accelerate, the cars rpms just kept climbing. I looked down and I was at 4k and still in first gear. I let off the gas and the car shifted into 2nd. Hmmmm that was weird. So I accelerate again and same thing. As soon as I let off the gas the car shifted into 3rd. I immediately headed for home. I did the typical checks and decided to take it around the block one more time. It felt even worse, this time taking longer to shift into the appropriate gear. Reversed seemed normal each time. Except, I've noticed a hand full of times this year (and today it happened again) when I backed it out of the garage after first starting it the car didnt move. I had to give it some gas and it sounded like it had a whir, but went away as soon as it started to move.

Now to cover everything, yes I have the proper fluid level, no it doesnt smell burnt and I dont see any shiny flakes in it. I checked the kickdown cable (lokar) and its hooked up like it should be, and moves freely and not hanging up, I am not leaking any fluid. I checked my front band adjustment and there is no tension on the adjuster. I threaded it until the head was almost flush with the case. Im wondering if my front band broke?

I've read about a 2-3 flare up issue, but this was all 3 speeds. Thoughts?
 
A fried trans, a bad converter, a stripped input shaft.
Those are about all the choices for that (unless you have one of those rubber insert drivelines)
 
In other words, time to open it up. I was really debating out rebuilding the trans prior to reinstalling it when I put my engine in.

I would hate to say the converter is bad, since it only has about 1500 miles on it, but that could be a possibility I suppose.
 
straightlinespeed said:
In other words, time to open it up. I was really debating out rebuilding the trans prior to reinstalling it when I put my engine in.

I would hate to say the converter is bad, since it only has about 1500 miles on it, but that could be a possibility I suppose.
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It's possible that a plugged up filter can cause it, but once a trans slips things are pretty much over.
Not going into gears at other times is an indication of hardened up rubber parts, or worn sealing rings or ring lands.
 
I have a feeling its bad, so I already pulled the trans today. I didnt get a chance to open it up yet. That will be tomorrows project, along with replacing the rear main seal.

Greg, do you know a good place for rebuild kits, and bolt in sprags etc... I might as well do it right since its apart.
 
straightlinespeed said:
I have a feeling its bad, so I already pulled the trans today. I didnt get a chance to open it up yet. That will be tomorrows project, along with replacing the rear main seal.

Greg, do you know a good place for rebuild kits, and bolt in sprags etc... I might as well do it right since its apart.
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Or www.transpartsonline.com has always been good to me and had better than usual prices.
Compare with the place Woods posted and see what the deal is.
 
Swap a 904 in. You won't believe the difference.
 
I got the trans apart. There was a lot of very fine metal and some larger pieces as well as gunk in the pan and filter. The front band broke right at the rivets. Any ideas what could cause the band to break? My other question is since I do have metal in the pan and filter Im assuming its in the converter also and that is also no good at this point, correct?

If its no good, has anyone ever sent them in to have them rebuilt? This was a custom converter built for my car from Edge Racing Converters.
 
straightlinespeed said:
I got the trans apart. There was a lot of very fine metal and some larger pieces as well as gunk in the pan and filter. The front band broke right at the rivets. Any ideas what could cause the band to break? My other question is since I do have metal in the pan and filter Im assuming its in the converter also and that is also no good at this point, correct?

If its no good, has anyone ever sent them in to have them rebuilt? This was a custom converter built for my car from Edge Racing Converters.
Click to expand...

Yup, they certainly can be rebuilt. Call Edge. I think you will find that they can do the job.
 
find a local converter shop to rebuild it, not costly at all. Band broke, is it stock, is the apply lever stock, is the base pressure turned up from stock?
Open it up, and show us what it looks like. Sounds like its just the front band, which would make it do what you described, rev up first, let off, and it upshifts to 3rd. You got the governor pressure up, let off the throttle, drops the throttle pressure, and it shifts into 3rd.
 
I have the trans all apart already. Although it was not a stock band, or apply lever. I cant answer the pressure question, Im assuming the pressure was stock. I never changed it, nor do I know how. Hahaha. Here is both pieces of the band
IMG_20160701_184319817.jpg

IMG_20160701_184408879.jpg
 
take a pic of the side of the valve body where the shifter linkage hooks up, there are 2 springs in the very corner behind a plate. The bigger spring is the Pressure Regulator spring. See what color it is, and how far adjusted in it is. Stock, would be approximately 1/4 gap on that adjuster and the outer bracket.
That looks like a flex red band. So it broke the whole end off of it,where a row of rivets were. Count how many rivets are on either end.
Go to a 10 rivet semi rigid. Borg Warner B22022A at WIT, Transtar will be same number, a variation of letters.
 
how do the rest of the clutches look. You might get away with just the band needing replaced.
 
FredS said:
take a pic of the side of the valve body where the shifter linkage hooks up, there are 2 springs in the very corner behind a plate. The bigger spring is the Pressure Regulator spring. See what color it is, and how far adjusted in it is. Stock, would be approximately 1/4 gap on that adjuster and the outer bracket.
That looks like a flex red band. So it broke the whole end off of it,where a row of rivets were. Count how many rivets are on either end.
Go to a 10 rivet semi rigid. Borg Warner B22022A at WIT, Transtar will be same number, a variation of letters.
Click to expand...
FredS said:
how do the rest of the clutches look. You might get away with just the band needing replaced.
Click to expand...

Here is the valve body.
IMG_20160701_191532911.jpg


Thanks for the info on the new band. I dont have it fully torn down, just the case gutted. I had a ton of metal shavings and gunk in the filter so its getting a whole rebuild.
 
Take a pic of the filter and pan. Should be quick to isolate where the metal is coming from while you inspect the clutch/steel assemblies, and the thrust washers on the planetaries. Could be from the converter, if no visible signs anywhere else.
 
Alright guys, I need help choosing a kit. I want this trans to hold up and work great, no matter what Im doing with it. In the past I've always used Alto Red clutches, which have always worked great for me, those were on 700R4's. Doing some research on the site, I see this kit from above. Transtar Super Deluxe Transmission Kit For Chrysler TF8 (A727) 62-Up from Northern Auto Parts is recommended many times on this site. I've never used the Raybestos clutches, also does the front band have more than 3 rivets and is it Kevlar?

Im trying to gather a list of parts I may need and if I have to order a different band I will, but I would like to know first.

Now as far as the rear band goes. Most kits do include them. I noticed my rear band was Kevlar, is it ok to reuse it? Or should I get a new one?

The parts I know Im going to order are

Billet Rear Servo
Front clutch springs
3.8 kick down lever

What I dont know if I need to order are.

Billet Accumulator
Billet Front Servo
End Play Shim Kit

Oh and on a side note, I can have my converter rebuilt for $130 with some new parts, and it starts the 2 year warranty over again. That is a plus! Another plus is my trans already has a Bolt in Sprag!!! I can reuse the springs and rollers correct?
 
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straightlinespeed said:
Im trying to gather a list of parts I may need and if I have to order a different band I will, but I would like to know first.

Now as far as the rear band goes. Most kits do include them. I noticed my rear band was Kevlar, is it ok to reuse it? Or should I get a new one?

The parts I know Im going to order are

Billet Rear Servo
Front clutch springs
3.8 kick down lever

What I dont know if I need to order are.

Billet Accumulator
Billet Front Servo
End Play Shim Kit

One plus is my trans already has a Bolt in Sprag!!! Can reuse the springs and rollers correct or does the Transtar kit come with new ones?
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Still looking for some input on the questions I have marked in Red, in my quote. I need to order the parts up and I dont want to order more than I need to.

One other question I have, I have this shift kit in the trans now.
TransGo TF6, TF8, 904, and 727: SK TFSC
Would the TF2 kit be worth it?
 
straightlinespeed said:
Still looking for some input on the questions I have marked in Red, in my quote. I need to order the parts up and I dont want to order more than I need to.

One other question I have, I have this shift kit in the trans now.
TransGo TF6, TF8, 904, and 727: SK TFSC
Would the TF2 kit be worth it?
Click to expand...

That kit and a few drilled out holes in the plate should be ok, but you would probably benefit from the full TF2 Transgo kit.
If the rear band looks good it is common to reuse them.
And just so you know, band breakage is common for hotrod cars that have not been prepared for the extra stress by using something like Fred suggested.
 
TrailBeast said:
That kit and a few drilled out holes in the plate should be ok, but you would probably benefit from the full TF2 Transgo kit.
If the rear band looks good it is common to reuse them.
And just so you know, band breakage is common for hotrod cars that have not been prepared for the extra stress by using something like Fred suggested.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the input Greg! I'll look into the full shift kit. The rear band still looks great IMO, heck the printing doesnt even look wore down.

I also studied the broken band this weekend, while I was tossing a cold beer back. It was a 8 rivet band. Im just stumped at how it broke in that particular spot. Im thinking the metal in the trans came from the band and then rubbing against the rotating parts. I did find that my apply lever was stamped with 3.2 on it also.

So with all the parts I have mentioned above, does it sound like it will be a stout trans and hold up well?
 
straightlinespeed said:
Thank you for the input Greg! I'll look into the full shift kit. The rear band still looks great IMO, heck the printing doesnt even look wore down.

I also studied the broken band this weekend, while I was tossing a cold beer back. It was a 8 rivet band. Im just stumped at how it broke in that particular spot. Im thinking the metal in the trans came from the band and then rubbing against the rotating parts. I did find that my apply lever was stamped with 3.2 on it also.

So with all the parts I have mentioned above, does it sound like it will be a stout trans and hold up well?
Click to expand...

It'll probably be just fine, I just have to wonder how much of the crap that went into the pan got recirculated everywhere else.
You don't generally blow up a converter and not disassemble for inspection and cleaning.
That blown converter is just to dang close to the pump to think it never got any garbage run through it, and then since your that far into it as to replace the band it seems a big risk not to inspect the rest of it.
 
TrailBeast said:
It'll probably be just fine, I just have to wonder how much of the crap that went into the pan got recirculated everywhere else.
You don't generally blow up a converter and not disassemble for inspection and cleaning.
That blown converter is just to dang close to the pump to think it never got any garbage run through it, and then since your that far into it as to replace the band it seems a big risk not to inspect the rest of it.
Click to expand...

I've thought about all the crude in the rest of the system, and I've been trying to figure out a way to flush the coolers. The lines are the easy part.
 
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