Can anyone explain the purpose and correct operation of this advance unit? 1971 Dodge 440 4bbl/six pack. It ties in with the carb idle solenoid I think, which makes me think it retards the timing when the key is shut off???
Distributor advance retard unit
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No retards further at idle. There used to be a grounding switch contact on the carb throttle arm which activated the retard solenoid. I'm sure it's in the shop manuals.
I remember (I had a 440-6 RR) a friend with a 4bbl 440 GTX had one. MIne did not, it had a dual point.
There was additional "smog" controls, the NOx system which involved a temp switch and control relay, and so on. Section 9A of the shop manual in 71
I remember (I had a 440-6 RR) a friend with a 4bbl 440 GTX had one. MIne did not, it had a dual point.
There was additional "smog" controls, the NOx system which involved a temp switch and control relay, and so on. Section 9A of the shop manual in 71
Now I understand, when the throttle is closed, (grounded on the throttle linkage switch), it retards the timing at idle. the switch on the 6 pack (this is a 6 pack distributor) is the idle solenoid. Some solenoids have a connecter to activate the solenoid and another connecter on the plunger head for this ground wire. I have it in the 71 service manual in section 8-139. Now is there anything I should know before trying to hook this up to factory specs???
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I was not aware that sixpacks ever came with a retard solenoid. I bought mine from a friend, and knew it's history. It was a 4 speed and came factory with a cast iron, Presolite dual point, no retard solenoid. It did have an idle speed solenoid on the throttle
(The wiring diagram does show 440-6 with retard so they must have)
However, the manual is contradictory. Even though the wiring diagram shows a retard solenoid for the 440-6, the tune up specs clearly indicate dual point settings, so ??
The functions of the two are not related, except that the "knub" on the idle solenoid which hits the throttle is the "switch" for the retard solenoid. Not all cars had idle solenoids. My friend had a Holley 4bbl equipped 70 GTX 4 speed, which had a switch made up of the idle screw on the carb, which was in an insulated assembly.
The throttle lever would come down onto the idle speed screw, which was insulated, and ground the screw. The wire off the idle screw assembly would then ground the retard solenoid at idle
The idle speed solenoid was simply hooked to switched ignition. It's job was to provide a higher speed idle to meet smog requirements, but to dump the throttle blades clear shut when the key was shut off in order to prevent "dieseling" or run-on
A quick look in the fuel section on Holley 4160 4bbl seems to indicate that stick cars came with an idle solenoid, and autos did not. This means the carb (photo below) had the odd insulated idle speed screw
(The wiring diagram does show 440-6 with retard so they must have)
However, the manual is contradictory. Even though the wiring diagram shows a retard solenoid for the 440-6, the tune up specs clearly indicate dual point settings, so ??
The functions of the two are not related, except that the "knub" on the idle solenoid which hits the throttle is the "switch" for the retard solenoid. Not all cars had idle solenoids. My friend had a Holley 4bbl equipped 70 GTX 4 speed, which had a switch made up of the idle screw on the carb, which was in an insulated assembly.
The throttle lever would come down onto the idle speed screw, which was insulated, and ground the screw. The wire off the idle screw assembly would then ground the retard solenoid at idle
The idle speed solenoid was simply hooked to switched ignition. It's job was to provide a higher speed idle to meet smog requirements, but to dump the throttle blades clear shut when the key was shut off in order to prevent "dieseling" or run-on
A quick look in the fuel section on Holley 4160 4bbl seems to indicate that stick cars came with an idle solenoid, and autos did not. This means the carb (photo below) had the odd insulated idle speed screw
I had purchased a couple months back from Year One, an idle solenoid for my 340 swinger. The idle solenoid may have been for the big block AVS, I cant remember. I had contacted year one inquiring, and they may have found the part i was looking for, because I don't think its in the catalog. It did have a year one part #. I just needed the special bracket and idle solenoid for my 340 AVS car and that part worked. The solenoid I purchased had two spade connections, one in the standard location at the base for the 12v battery connection, and another on the plunger. I was unaware what that second connection(ground) at the plunger was for as it was un needed and removed it before installation. I know that the 6 pack solenoids have the welded on mounting bracket that attaches to the intake manifold and does not have the second (ground) spade on the plunger, so that may be a challenge to make the correct idle solenoid work with the retard distributor.
Well the snowball rolled off the mountain when I bought a 71 charger R/T. The car was a 4BBL that had been converted to a 6 Pack. The previous owner has done a decent job of using the correct parts for the conversion, so I have chosen to keep the 6 pack. The problems with the car that I feel the need to get rid of are, cheap headers, bad duel exhaust, manual valve body transmission, mopar electronic distributor conversion, cragar wheels and radial tires. I found an original prestolite distributor that I figured would be a wise move to get rid of the electronic distributor for a "stocker" look. now you know the story of the snow ball!
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
"I see" LOL
It just occurred to me that possibly the reason my car did not have the retard solenoid is that it was a "non" CA (70) car. Mine did not have the fuel tank evap stuff "carbon canister" either.
Or maybe this was the difference in 70-71
It just occurred to me that possibly the reason my car did not have the retard solenoid is that it was a "non" CA (70) car. Mine did not have the fuel tank evap stuff "carbon canister" either.
Or maybe this was the difference in 70-71
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