There are many dry sumps out there. Seems ideal for most.
Do Roller Cams in Big Blocks Need Oil Restrictors for the Lifters?
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33IMP
Well-Known Member
For giggles, I researched what my lifters now cost.
$1611 dollars at summit !?! I guarantee I did NOT pay anywhere near that for mine!
Heck, I think I paid around $200 for the Herbert (chinese?) solid roller lifters in my small block. No complaints about them either (it was more than a few years ago, tho)
$1611 dollars at summit !?! I guarantee I did NOT pay anywhere near that for mine!
Heck, I think I paid around $200 for the Herbert (chinese?) solid roller lifters in my small block. No complaints about them either (it was more than a few years ago, tho)
I have ran Comp Cams 829-16 lifters with no restriction on the street/ strip for over 35 years. I have also only ever bushed the bores on two race engines.
There is no need for restrictors and if you just won't to do something bushing the lifter bores is where to spend the money.
Tom
There is no need for restrictors and if you just won't to do something bushing the lifter bores is where to spend the money.
Tom
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Comp Cams 829-16 $594.86, get a 10% off coupon and you'll be rolling.
https://www.compcams.com/endure-x-s...-440-426-hemi-904-dia-centered-set-of-16.html
Tom
https://www.compcams.com/endure-x-s...-440-426-hemi-904-dia-centered-set-of-16.html
Tom
I was advised to stay away from the needle bearings and stay with bushed rollers for Bonneville. I like the DLC versus bronze, but then what to do about oiling when bushed instead.
Your thoughts with needle bearings rollers at Bonneville??
What kind of RPM do you run? I know it's for miles. Valve spring pressure?
Tom
Tom
I am planning on 7000-7500 will be needed. I don't have a spring rate picked yet.
From BAM asking more oil restriction info.:;
Eric,
The lifters will function properly with or without oil restriction. We typically prefer that you not restrict oil lto the lifters, but that is not always possible. The key consideration is determining how much oil you can safely restrict before it begins to negatively impact the lifter's performance or durability. Whether oil restriction is necessary depends on a variety of factors, including your engine’s oiling system design, bearing clearance, RPM range, and overall application. We recommend that you consult with an experienced engine builder who is familiar with these variables and can help you find the right setup for your specific combination.
We consider the BB1 STL DLC bushing bearing to be our top choice for wheel bearings. I am aware of at least one land speed record achieved in a Corvette with a BBC engine using BAM BB1 STL/DLC bushings.
Eric,
The lifters will function properly with or without oil restriction. We typically prefer that you not restrict oil lto the lifters, but that is not always possible. The key consideration is determining how much oil you can safely restrict before it begins to negatively impact the lifter's performance or durability. Whether oil restriction is necessary depends on a variety of factors, including your engine’s oiling system design, bearing clearance, RPM range, and overall application. We recommend that you consult with an experienced engine builder who is familiar with these variables and can help you find the right setup for your specific combination.
We consider the BB1 STL DLC bushing bearing to be our top choice for wheel bearings. I am aware of at least one land speed record achieved in a Corvette with a BBC engine using BAM BB1 STL/DLC bushings.
I personally don't think needle roller bearings are a problem so long as you have positive oil pressure, and have the valve train in the correct geometry.
A lot of needle bearing failures are the result of poor preparations such as incorrect valve spring pressure, poor oiling, and bad geometry.
If there is a way to screw something up there will always be a few that can ruin it for everyone.
Tom
A lot of needle bearing failures are the result of poor preparations such as incorrect valve spring pressure, poor oiling, and bad geometry.
If there is a way to screw something up there will always be a few that can ruin it for everyone.
Tom
33IMP
Well-Known Member
What I heard as a potential cause of roller bearing lifter failure was extended idling or low rpm operation in street cars. (Limited splash lube for the rollers).I do like the pressure port to the rollers.
Basically your choice becomes "how much of a gambler are you"?
$600 lifters, or $1600 lifters?
Personally, since my rollers are both regrinds, they are on the mild side and spring pressures are correspondingly mild. And even my small block ran as hard shifted at 6500 as it did at 7200. I even short shifted it often to slow it down, so my cheap lifters weren't a huge concern.
YOUR decision for your application will probably vary.
Basically your choice becomes "how much of a gambler are you"?
$600 lifters, or $1600 lifters?
Personally, since my rollers are both regrinds, they are on the mild side and spring pressures are correspondingly mild. And even my small block ran as hard shifted at 6500 as it did at 7200. I even short shifted it often to slow it down, so my cheap lifters weren't a huge concern.
YOUR decision for your application will probably vary.
33IMP
Well-Known Member
The picture with that listing shows an oil band. But it does say the picture is only "representative" of the lifters, and it does say in the part description that it does NOT have an oil band.
That is correct. I just happen to have a new set in the box that I took a look at. Oil band or not I've used these lifters in many engines, and I've never had any issues with them.
7200 rpms on the 526" engine with a 282/282 @ .050" .672" solid roller.I always inspect them annually and cycle them out on the big engine about every 3 years. No issues.
On my 499" RB with a XR274R Comp roller 236/ 242 @ .050" .574" lift I've had the same set in that engine for 10-years.
Tom
Needle bearings means more moving parts. My philosophy with all machinery that I work with or build with is to reduce the numbers of moving parts as much as possible. That is smart engineering. Only add them when there is no other option. Every moving part is an additional potential point of failure. With the bushings, bronze, or DLC steel, your bearing is the oil.
Jeremiah (jd)
Well-Known Member
I have a set of bushed Isky red zones in red Charger engine with the ez-max option and a set of bushed comp 829's in the GTS. No modification required for either. Exposing the lifter cut away is rarely an issue because as you increase lob lift the base circle of the cam gets smaller. That's more of a 55 and 60mm cam journal application issue.
My old 470 had the Comp 829s for almost 2000 runs and 4-5000 street miles over about 18 years. Shifted at 7000 for most of the runs. Added nos and shifted at 8000 for many runs. Never had a lifter problem. Never bushed the bores either. Kim
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Thank you everyone, this is the discussion I have been wanting.
vitamindart
Well-Known Member
my dart was driven on the street , mine were Comp's. if I did it again now, I might try and find a bushed roller instead of the needle bearing style.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
My twin turbo 489 big block Chevy in my boat has the Isky red zone solid rollers in it now, i highly recommend them. The duty cycle of a marine engine is similar to what a bonneville engine will see during a run, max load for long periods of time. There is ZERO chance I’d run a needle roller (with or without direct oiling) on this type of engine. A bushed axle with oiling, DLC coated, with the bores bushed and oil flow (leaks) limited will be the absolute best chance of making it survive. If the bores in the block are pristine and measure as such, then solid body lifter won’t hemorrhage much. In that case I might try to run it without bushing the block.
Here is what Howards has in a description for their bushed solid rollers.
Howards Cams UltraMax™ Direct Lube Bushed Roller Lifters for Ultra Severe Applications
Howards Cams took the severe application ProMax™ lifters and replaced the needle bearings in the roller tip with solid bushings. Made for ultra high spring pressures and the most aggressive cam lobes. They also feature "Full Time" high pressure oiling to the bearing axles. This continuous oiling in conjunction with the solid roller bushings offer the high RPM and high spring capability. Features lightened, steel alloy bodies with a special enhanced finish. Head treated steel link bars. Case hardened 8620 rollers. .300" taller body allows lifter to fit early, late model, and aftermarket blocks. Fully rebuildable. Made in the USA! Sets of 8 pair.
Howards Cams UltraMax™ Direct Lube Bushed Roller Lifters for Ultra Severe Applications
Howards Cams took the severe application ProMax™ lifters and replaced the needle bearings in the roller tip with solid bushings. Made for ultra high spring pressures and the most aggressive cam lobes. They also feature "Full Time" high pressure oiling to the bearing axles. This continuous oiling in conjunction with the solid roller bushings offer the high RPM and high spring capability. Features lightened, steel alloy bodies with a special enhanced finish. Head treated steel link bars. Case hardened 8620 rollers. .300" taller body allows lifter to fit early, late model, and aftermarket blocks. Fully rebuildable. Made in the USA! Sets of 8 pair.
Talked with the folks at Chet Herbert. He recommended oil restriction only if oiling through the pushrods. If oil is regulated in a factory style or via a pushrod restriction, then the oil feed hole in the lifter will work as designed.
Also, the spring pressure recommended for the D6H cam at Bonneville is no more than 250-275/600-650lb
Also, the spring pressure recommended for the D6H cam at Bonneville is no more than 250-275/600-650lb
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Those are baby spring pressures for race engines.
What does the crew chief recommend?
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Lol whatever the cam manufacturer recommends. I’m not smarter than the cam grinder. I was just saying it should be no problem to keep a lifter alive under those spring pressures. That cam has lobes that are not part killers. I would however make sure the manufacturer knows how I plan to use it and the rpm (sustained) that I plan to run with it. They might add a little seat pressure to the recommendation with that knowledge.
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