Dodge Dart wants to turn right

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Robchally

Robchally

Popping out of a barn
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Last thuesday we finally got approval for the road by Dutch authorities.
Car all fine, engine all fine. Dodge Dart 1973
In advance of this inspection we had all suspension aligned to factory specs.
When braking, straight as an arrow.
When full throttle, straight as an arrow.
But when in full throttle fastly back to zero throttle the car takes an extreme pull to the right, I nearly lost control.
When just cruising and from, say 1/4 throttle to zero throttle, straight as an arrow.

Any ideas on this?

Rear axle is a little (0.4") off centre to the right. It is straight and nicely in 90 degrees forward.
Rear spring leafs seem to have some different flex. Bushings have no play, but they show wear.
 
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First time on the road

b51649a2-74c2-425c-9448-f58b437fe13c.jpeg
 
Do you have power steering or manual steering?

If power jack front wheels off ground and put jackstands under it.

Start the car with your hands away from the steering wheel. Does the steering wheel move in either direction even a very small amount? If it doesn't move then the steering box adjustment is fine. If it moves at all then the box needs adjustment as the video shows.

I think it has loose control arm bushings in the front suspension.
 
@halifaxhops: Will check tonight
@413: Power steering. No movement, adjustment checked. Ball joints replaced, bushings will get another check tonight.

Wheels up all's ok.
Just cruising, all's ok
Full throttle, all's ok.
Zero throttle, all's ok.
But the instant drop of power makes it want to plough the right shoulder
 
Will check movement of the engine under load, tonight. Might hit something. I know clearance is about nothing between pipe and gearbox.
 
Reaching for straws...

Do you have power brakes?

The sudden drop from lower to high vacuum (throttle blades shut) might be causing your booster to do odd things?

broken axle??? Get the rear up, with trans in gear or park, make sure both axles cause the other to spin opposite direction (open diff) or same direction (trac lok) do this in both directions
 
Robchally said:
Will check movement of the engine under load, tonight. Might hit something. I know clearance is about nothing between pipe and gearbox.
Click to expand...
That's a good thought. you can put the car in reverse and stand on the brake pedal while giving it more and more gas till the engine either lifts (broken mount) or moves enough to cause a noticeable steering interference.
 
another outside the box thought.

When you give the car full throttle the front end lifts.

This causes the front suspension geometry to camber in at the top. I think it also toes in due to the suspension geometry.

When you let off the gas the suspension goes back to normal BUT if the right ball joints were excessively stiff or other interference prevented the left front wheel from returning from a toe in situation the right front wheel would have to point to the right more causing a turn rite situation????
 
I had a 74 Duster that did that to me. It turned out that the P-side inner fender apron was no longer properly attached to the firewall....... so the front stub frame had a mind of it's own .
In my case, the car made a hard right and I was off-roading. This was in traffic at about 45mph, so I was lucky to have been in the furthest right-hand lane. Had it gone the otherway, She'd have taken a few other cars with her.

In your case, if the UCA bushings have been recently replaced, I'd bet on the UCA cam adjuster bolts not squeezing tight enough. The Moog bolts are not engineered right, and as delivered, they do not have enough threads. So then, even tho you torque them, they are not squeezing the frame sufficiently. Instead, the nuts are bottomed out on the threads.
My solution was hardened washers; one on each end;
and a fresh alignment. Still good after 25 years.

If it's not there, then check the strut-rods
 
Scody21 said:
Can’t use factory alignment specs with radial tires…
Click to expand...
but would that cause the symptoms???

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from 73 FSM
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They are VERY different specs. I suspect the OEM camber was to help keep the tire flatter to the ground before radials


Robchally said:
Rear axle is a little (0.4") off centre to the right. It is straight and nicely in 90 degrees forward.
Rear spring leafs seem to have some different flex. Bushings have no play, but they show wear.
Click to expand...
double check the U bolts are properly torqued
 
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AJ/FormS said:
The Moog bolts are not engineered right, and as delivered, they do not have enough threads. So then, even tho you torque them, they are not squeezing the frame sufficiently. Instead, the nuts are bottomed out on the threads.
Click to expand...
OP could mark with a sharpie on the washers etc and look for movement.
 
Dana67Dart said:
another outside the box thought.

When you give the car full throttle the front end lifts.

This causes the front suspension geometry to camber in at the top. I think it also toes in due to the suspension geometry.

When you let off the gas the suspension goes back to normal BUT if the right ball joints were excessively stiff or other interference prevented the left front wheel from returning from a toe in situation the right front wheel would have to point to the right more causing a turn rite situation????
Click to expand...
Yes and as an alignment tech for 6 years, I saw a few off-shore BJs that were so tight, that it was impossible to achieve a consistent alignment, as the front end settled into various ride-heights at various times.
This was aggravated by somebody else having tightened the LCA inner pivots at other that ride height. But even after allowing the LCA bushings to unwind, those tight LBJs, would still cause problems including; wandering, and the steering wheel would not self-center. At hiway speed this was not acceptable.
My cure for that was new, better BJs, which at that time, was MOOGs or TRWs
And a trip to the office; to make it clear to the Service Writer, that we don't install that off-shore junk any more, cuz it was me who unwittingly installed them, at the request of the customer, who was a small-time local used car dealer, trying to save a few bucks. We lost that account. A short while later, as those cars got sold, they started coming to me, and I changed out those cheap tight BJs. It wasn't long afterwards, and that used-car dealer went out of business. I can't imagine why ............ lol.
 
I had a dart that would do that once in a while when I was young. Drove me nuts. My buddy thought I fell asleep and jerked the wheel. I told him I didn't. He didn't believe me. It turned out to be a bad lower ball joint that had play but was rusted and frozen and then would occasionally shift. Well after lubing it freed up and crap it was so sloppy.
 
Well that's a first obvious cause: Springleaf centre pin completely off. Some hex nut that doesn't align.
And on the driver's side the leaf spring wasn't stiff against the seating. Some threads gone.
Well, that's a nice winter's job for the first couple of days!
I'll clean everything up, make some new treads and make two new centre pins. Than we'll try again!

Thanks for the input richt now, I'll be back!
 
Shim the spring hanger back on the right side 3/8 of an inch with a plate in front of the studs. Look at the bracket where it is attached . Compare each side to the hole on the bottom of the frame rail in front of the bracket. You'll see it is not installed correctly from the factory . Seen many like this they are not installed at the same location. Cocks the rear and causes your delima

1738266095418.jpeg
 

Robchally said:
Well that's a first obvious cause: Springleaf centre pin completely off. Some hex nut that doesn't align.
And on the driver's side the leaf spring wasn't stiff against the seating. Some threads gone.
Well, that's a nice winter's job for the first couple of days!
I'll clean everything up, make some new treads and make two new centre pins. Than we'll try again!

Thanks for the input richt now, I'll be back!
Click to expand...
That's definitely Your issue, but I'd still do what OMM said about shimming the front hanger, if fixing those doesn't bring it square. If You've got an amicable alignment shop, I'd get it close, & see if they'll let You fine-tune the thrust while it's up...or do it for You reasonable.
The side-to-side variation You have is common, if the thrust is OK, You can try loosening both front & rear hangers & shift(pry/pull) them towards centered & snug them down. If there's .400" diff, You'll only need to move it .200", that's assuming it's not just a variation in the quarter lips....which is just as possible.
 
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Great! Thanks, we will take care of all input. Shimming, checking, tightening, replacing.
My neighbour owes me one, he is Bosch service centre owner and has modern alignment equipment. That will turn out fine.
As it is wintertime, we have lots of time, we can concentrate on the Dart AND on the two 440 engines I received a month ago from Minnesota.
Thanks a lot guys, much appreciated input!
 
Here's an update.
Last weeks we've been on other projects. Yesterday we checked all input on this subject on the car. Rear axle a little off to the right. Ok. We managed to get it within some millimeters.
The right front hanger was a little off too. Some little spacing was enough!
Four new U bolts, some new bushings, and all freshed-up bolts and nuts, torqued to specs.
The carb needed some adjustment on the accelaration pump, and we were good to go on a firm test drive.
The car handled like a dream! Well, what a surprise! The bog at sudden WOT completely gone and the car takes off real nice. But: At sudden change from WOT to idle the car goes straight! Yeaahh, success!
Now we can enjoy, and get some trust in the car. Weather is good, now, Next thursday we'll put the tail striping on, so let's go!

Thanks a lot guys for all the support and input! Cheers!
 
1WildRT said:
Another thing to look at is the rear springs, spring eye bushings, axle center pins, if anything is shifting the car will react to it..
Click to expand...

Killer6 said:
That's definitely Your issue.
Click to expand...

Robchally said:
Here's an update.
Rear axle a little off to the right. Ok. We managed to get it within some millimeters.
The right front hanger was a little off too. Some little spacing was enough!
Four new U bolts, some new bushings, and all freshed-up bolts and nuts, torqued to specs.

The car handled like a dream! Well, what a surprise! At sudden change from WOT to idle the car goes straight! Yeaahh, success!


Thanks a lot guys for all the support and input! Cheers!
Click to expand...

There are times when some forum members seem to be 100% clued in on what is wrong and how to fix it. When they take the time to help others out, it is a very good thing.
 
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