Don't know how to ask/don't know what I want.

-
64ragtop

64ragtop

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2005
Messages
986
Reaction score
43
Location
South Austin, Texas
Seems like every time I use a floor jack or my engine hoist the LIFT part goes well, but the LOWER part is really "tickelish". I would like to be able to lower the load smoothly and controllably by controlling the valve instead of just barely cracking the valve and jerking the load, often lowering it too much. I think maybe the air/hydraulic pumps I see around various tool shopping sites might do that, but I would rather have an electric pump if there was one that would give me that controllability. Or, is this just another of my fever dreams or a product of head up assitis?

BC
 
64ragtop said:
Seems like every time I use a floor jack or my engine hoist the LIFT part goes well, but the LOWER part is really "tickelish". I would like to be able to lower the load smoothly and controllably by controlling the valve instead of just barely cracking the valve and jerking the load, often lowering it too much. I think maybe the air/hydraulic pumps I see around various tool shopping sites might do that, but I would rather have an electric pump if there was one that would give me that controllability. Or, is this just another of my fever dreams or a product of head up assitis?
;
BC
Click to expand...

Cool question. First off: what are you unhappy with? ( What are you currently using? ). A lot of current "lift jacks",fail in my opinion. My Harbor Freight "aluminum two ton jack " was fair. I missed the "old school " feel ,of the stamped steel jacks I grew up with. Picked an all steel jack,from Harbor Freight, night and day difference.; Part of it's my fault. The stronger steel jack is safety and assurance, in my life....
 
An easy way to get smoother steadier lowering is to make a handle at a right angle for the pressure valve. Even if it locks/lowers through the pump handle, one that shoots off to the side will help get a small, controlled valve opening for the right amount of drop. Could be as simple as drilling a hole through the end of the pump handle and putting a piece of bar stock through when you want to lower it.
 
Thanks for the responses, folks, but I'm not sure I described my wants very well. I have a no-name lift I won in a contest on another forum years ago probably explains this. The valve to lower the lift is a tiny (1/4" or so) round thing with a crossbar that's maybe 1/16th" and is painful to hold and turn when trying to release the pressure, like practically all of the floor jacks I've dealt with. When I've applied enough force (and pain) to turn the valve, it releases pretty suddenly and drops the load with almost no resistance and usually too far. Then I get to jack it up to the position I wanted originally, to line up with an engine stand for example. The sudden release isn't much of an issue with a floor jack as I'm letting the load all the way down, not positioning it.

I've modified the jack handle rod with a cross slot like most of the floor jack handles I've dealt with for years, so I can use both hands to just barely open the valve. This is better, but what I really want is a way to raise and lower the load with some measure of control in both directions. I've been wondering if a hydraulic pump (air/pneumatic or electric) would allow adding and releasing oil to the cylinder.

Any further thoughts will be deeply appreciated.

BC
 
The valve to lower the lift is a tiny (1/4" or so) round thing with a crossbar that's maybe 1/16th" and is painful to hold and turn when trying to release the pressure,
Click to expand...

Maybe post a pic. Could it possibly be modified to give you more control?
 
It wouldn't be all that difficult to add size to the valve to control the release better, but how do I control the raising and lowering in order to properly position an engine to mount to an engine stand as a one-person operation. Thanks for your suggestions to better control the lowering, but I want a way to control both up and down actions.

B C
 
i am 45 and been using these in the garage with my dad since i was like 5 and feel your pain and said many times man i wish this was a powered lift. but never bothered me enough to do something about it lol i



maybe take out the hydraulic cylinder and put in some sort of electric motor or i believe they have electric hydraulic rams of some sort. just make sure it will have the power to lift a motor and go the distance IE: extend far enough to raise a motor and trans out of a car

i believe air will give you still give you some sort of herky jerky motions at times but will just be easier to get it back into position if you go to far. so air is prob better than manual pump but electric if you can make it work is prob gonna be the smoothest.

http://www.sears.com/dragway-tools-2-ton-folding-air-hydraulic/p-SPM7947871917

Easily use the hand pump or use air power and push a button to lift up to 4000 lbs
 
Let me ask this. How tight are you making it to go up? I found that if I just bring it to a stop with very little pressure it will still jack it up. Many of us want to torque it really tight and then when we want to go down it is like a stuck bolt. If I am going to be under it (which we should not do without a jack stand) I then give it a good tightening. Just my thoughts
 
64ragtop said:
It wouldn't be all that difficult to add size to the valve to control the release better, but how do I control the raising and lowering in order to properly position an engine to mount to an engine stand as a one-person operation. Thanks for your suggestions to better control the lowering, but I want a way to control both up and down actions.

B C
Click to expand...

Oh, so the lift is a pump style, right? I was picturing something like a two/four post lift that has a lousy control on it. Hence the pic request.

My guess would be to find an electric over hydraulic unit that you could plumb in.
 
I've never tried but has anyone considered a 5000 lb. turnbuckle or similar for your fine adjust? Get close on the hydraulic first.
 
Bad Sport said:
Oh, so the lift is a pump style, right? I was picturing something like a two/four post lift that has a lousy control on it. Hence the pic request.

My guess would be to find an electric over hydraulic unit that you could plumb in.
Click to expand...

I don't know other than he said floor jack or engine hoist, so in my mind it is that tiny little wing nut per say valve that when you go to go down under a lot of pressure say a whole front or rear of a car or a big block on a hoist with transmission and you crack the valve to let it down it jumps down the first several inches. scares the crap outta me at times. but I usually just tighten it a little and then when I go to lower it it seeps out and goes down....smoooothly. LOL
 
From what I think I know, the sudden and jerky release could be cured by adjusting the orfice size and the angles of the mating surfaces in the valve, kinda like the idle adjust screw and seat in a carburetor. I'm sure the makers do not see any profit in making modifications to products they're already selling. Smooth, gradual and easy release to lower the load doesn't seem like much of a "value adding" feature either. Could be an interesting project for a machinist, but beyond my skills and tools.

But I think the posters who have mentioned air/hydraulic and electric/hydraulic setups are close to what I think is needed to position a load up or down (or down and back up again). Anyone have thoughts about where I might find more knowledge in this area??

I appreciate any input! Thanks!!

BC
 
If it is an engine cherry picker you are talking about, I switched my 5 ton ram to an 8 ton ram. I don't know of it was the old ram or how the new one is built but I did gain a lot better control when lowering an engine.
 
A larger ram will most definately "slow down" lift. Not sure it would affect lowering, depends on how internal passages are drilled
 
lol, ya don't care for the turnbuckle idea I guess.
What about a power tilt / trim such as on a boat lower end added to the ram of the picker?
 
67Dart273 said:
A larger ram will most definately "slow down" lift. Not sure it would affect lowering, depends on how internal passages are drilled
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting at: how the internal passages are drilled. the size of the orfice sets the absolute flow rate of the oil. How quickly the valve goes from closed (no oil flow) to wide open (max flow allowed by the orfice) is controlled by the thread pitch (how far the valve opens for a given rotation of the screw) and the amount of area for the oil to flow through, How quickly the area is varied is determined by the taper of the valve and the orfice, like the idle mixture screw in a carburetor. At least that explains it as well as I can if my understanding is correct.

Meanwhile, back at the original situation, I think I have a much simpler solution. If I clamp vise grips crossways on the shaft I can change the valve opening more gradually. That's what I think BadSport suggested several posts back. I've been making a mountain out of a molehill!! DUH!!!

BC
 
64ragtop said:
Meanwhile, back at the original situation, I think I have a much simpler solution. If I clamp vise grips crossways on the shaft I can change the valve opening more gradually. That's what I think BadSport suggested several posts back. I've been making a mountain out of a molehill!! DUH!!!

BC
Click to expand...

Well, I'm still trying to picture what exactly you have there, actually you had the solution when you were talking about putting the rod through the jack handle, I just pointed it out. :D
 
I cut a slot in the end of the jack handle so I can fit it over the end of the valve and and open and close the valve by rotating the handle.
Several of the floor jacks I've used over the years (maybe ALL of them) have the valve right next to the socket the jack handle fits into to pump it up.
Simple, if not very elegant!
I think I've been overcomplicating a cheese sandwich all afternoon.

BC
 
Also you may want to confirm that you have not gotten air mixed into the oil somehow. There is a way to purge it, I think you need to open the said valve and pump the jack for several minutes to release the air. It should work better after that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top