Doug's headers not fitting - frustration
- Thread starter Uncle Bob
- Start date
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Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
If it doesn't I've got a hydraulic press in the corner
The good thing about having to beat on headers is that you get to show them exactly what you think of them. It's vey relaxing.
Seriously, the trick will be starting the dent in the right place so I can get it done and over with.
yup.. sharpie it up.. also remember to check your flange is still straight after beating it
Super-Cuda
MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!
Good luck with it bud..
No way should you have to beat on them like that to fit.
Me, I'd make one last call to Dougs, then , if no recourse,
I'd take pics and post them on here and send them back to Dougs with pics showing them how bad they fit on this site.
Then see how Dougs reacts.
Remember.. This is one of the largest Mopar sites in the world.
Lots of members watching...
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I called before. The guy was nice and tried to help but it ended up I should go ahead and dent them.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
My wife noticed the bellhousing to engine parting line doesn't look square to the firewall. It looks like the tailshaft needs to go toward the passenger side. I checked and the trans was already cocked around off center a little in the cross member, tailshaft toward the passenger side. So, from above, it's turned counter-clockwise.
Next I took the crossmember down, raised the front of the engine a little, left the trans on the jack, and pushed the tailshaft toward the passenger side until it hit the tunnel. Got out, let the engine down, and now the coupler will turn, but rubs and pushes the engine over a little as it goes. Why is it floating? I don't know. But it sounds like the k-frame must be cocked, in the opposite direction? So moving it clockwise (from above) seems to be needed?
Next I took the crossmember down, raised the front of the engine a little, left the trans on the jack, and pushed the tailshaft toward the passenger side until it hit the tunnel. Got out, let the engine down, and now the coupler will turn, but rubs and pushes the engine over a little as it goes. Why is it floating? I don't know. But it sounds like the k-frame must be cocked, in the opposite direction? So moving it clockwise (from above) seems to be needed?
Inertia
Well-Known Member
I have put a flat washer under the 2 inside/inboard steering box mount bolts, to angle box away from engine, then loosened the 3 bolts holding the steering column base to the floor, to align as nec, - to gain clearance.
I have seen a u-joint replace the coupler, can't remember vehicle.
"Flaming River" comes to mind, not used one myself.
I have seen a u-joint replace the coupler, can't remember vehicle.
"Flaming River" comes to mind, not used one myself.
mad mike
Member
I bought Doug headers for my 66 barracuda. Paid over 1000.00 for them and had a similar problem. The instructions where not that clear, So I called and asked what I was doing wrong. Turned out I had to cut the headers apart at the flange and the instructions said to do that only if I used factory studs on the ends of the heads. I was able to get the headers around the torsion bars by using my floor jack to push them past the bar. It was a 2-man job and a pain in the butt. But now that they are done they look great. I would suggest you try calling them also. Good luck mad mike
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I didn't get into measuring the frame, but I noticed that the distance between the front edge of the k-frame and the end of the frame rail is 1/4" less on the passenger side. I have no idea if they should be the same or not though.
mad mike
Member
Thats a good question. I'm not sure where you could look it up. I'll do some research and get back to you. I have some old body and frame measuring books I can look thru. Talk to you soon
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Thanks!
I have seen this:
There you can measure from the front bolt back 44.85 to that measurement point but honestly right now the jackstand might be in the way of that that.
I don't have another car around to even check it to see if it's plausible. If I wasn't so beat down old and tired I'd just go ahead and bolt the engine snug to the k-frame and pick it up, and start backing bolts out. But man I really don't want to go through all that and then find out that they're all that way so what would be really helpful is to know if other cars measure out equal at that point or not.
Between you and me, I'm pretty sure the way things got better when I swung the tailshaft against the passenger side of the hump is telling me the truth. The crossmember is located parallel to the frame rails. The transmission was out of position when the crossmember was bolted in. I can't move the crossmember. I can move the k-frame. But I also don't know if the car has ever been hit either. It doesn't look like it, but I don't know after all these years.
Also, the difference in the measurement, if changed to be equal, seems like it would rotate things the right way (tailshaft toward the center/driver side).
Tell me I'm wrong before I take on this task to find out it wasn't necessary.
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mad mike
Member
According to your datum sheet which is the same as mine from the front k-frame bolt hole to the l position is 44.85 on both sides. If they are the same on your car then chances are that the tranny crossmember is out of Wack. So I would think to oblong the member holes or maybe try a different member. Remember the ruler won't lie. MikeThanks!
I have seen this:
View attachment 1716251602
There you can measure from the front bolt back 44.85 to that measurement point but honestly right now the jackstand might be in the way of that that.
I don't have another car around to even check it to see if it's plausible. If I wasn't so beat down old and tired I'd just go ahead and bolt the engine snug to the k-frame and pick it up, and start backing bolts out. But man I really don't want to go through all that and then find out that they're all that way so what would be really helpful is to know if other cars measure out equal at that point or not.
Between you and me, I'm pretty sure the way things got better when I swung the tailshaft against the passenger side of the hump is telling me the truth. The crossmember is located parallel to the frame rails. The transmission was out of position when the crossmember was bolted in. I can't move the crossmember. I can move the k-frame. But I also don't know if the car has ever been hit either. It doesn't look like it, but I don't know after all these years.
Also, the difference in the measurement, if changed to be equal, seems like it would rotate things the right way (tailshaft toward the center/driver side).
Tell me I'm wrong before I take on this task to find out it wasn't necessary.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
You'll need to check the diagonal measurements of the datum points as shown, left front to right rear, then right front to left rear, compare them and the other diagonals and see if the frame is "diamond" shaped .
Many roundy-round cars are, some by choice, others not, lol
Many roundy-round cars are, some by choice, others not, lol
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Yes the ruler doesn't lie, but no, I couldn't have measured those diagonals without a frame table.
What I did was to get the distance from the front edge of the frame rail to where the K-frame meets the frame rail equal on both sides, and as far back as possible. Then I'm your uncle.
I don't know how I managed to pry the engine/k-frame/transmission back about 1/8" but that was just a part of it.
In the video the engine's shoved to the passenger side, with about 3/8" of shims on the driver side. I should go back and measure the centerline again per that TTI sheet to see if I need to do anything there. Also might end up shuffling things around some due to the torsion bars, not sure right now though.
What I did was to get the distance from the front edge of the frame rail to where the K-frame meets the frame rail equal on both sides, and as far back as possible. Then I'm your uncle.
I don't know how I managed to pry the engine/k-frame/transmission back about 1/8" but that was just a part of it.
In the video the engine's shoved to the passenger side, with about 3/8" of shims on the driver side. I should go back and measure the centerline again per that TTI sheet to see if I need to do anything there. Also might end up shuffling things around some due to the torsion bars, not sure right now though.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
From another thread, appropriate
Absolutely appropriate!!
mad mike
Member
Keep at it sounds like you're on the right track. This is what sucks about being in different states I have a tram gauge to measure all that . Good luck I hope you find a salution soon. Mike
jeff ezell
67 Dodge Dart
Looks like he even had a cell phone back then! Lol!This is true... little known fact was Tom Hoover was known as Tom "Hookah"... and that's how he came up with the hemi.. baked out of his skull... Later when the engineers switched to crack they made lean burn
This is an actual picture..
View attachment 1716250127
The guy was just way ahead of his time
mad mike
Member
I spoke with a guy here in pa. Said he had the same problem with his headers . He sent them back to Dougs and they found the pipes where bent wrong and sent him a new set of headers. But they had told him to beat in the headers first. he refused saying at the coast of them was to much to not have them fit right. He also figured it would void any warranty on them. I really do feel sorry for you with all the problems. I have run out of advise for you. Sorry mike. If I think of anything else that will help I'll let you know. Good Luck
Inertia
Well-Known Member
I strongly recommend sending pix, particulars, have all the answers as to where the engine sits as per that chart I posted.
Have all the answers ready, and call or mail all that stuff.
Particularly the torsion bar/collector beating adjustments.
I have had a flange on crooked as I mentioned, they need to be made aware, and ask what a new left side header will cost you ?
See what they say.
The only other time I saw a header that beat up, the dude tried to install it from the top, beat the top tube flat on top, no ****.
Regards and respect .
Have all the answers ready, and call or mail all that stuff.
Particularly the torsion bar/collector beating adjustments.
I have had a flange on crooked as I mentioned, they need to be made aware, and ask what a new left side header will cost you ?
See what they say.
The only other time I saw a header that beat up, the dude tried to install it from the top, beat the top tube flat on top, no ****.
Regards and respect .
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
I am counting it as a lesson learned even though I hope I never have to use it again. Before lifting the k-frame to the frame rail, bolt the transmission to the cross member to the body and move it all as far to the rear as the transmission will allow. Then square up the K-frame to the frame rails at the front, and send those big bolts home.
mad mike
Member
Did that work for you I hope it does and ends your nightmares.
Uncle Bob
Shiny paint causes stress.
Yes I think I have it. It is moved far to the passenger side with a 3/8" shim on the driver side and I can spin the coupler so long as I take the cover off that. That gets caught at the corners so I will trim off what isn't needed to clear the header. I've got a cover, seal, and wire clamp coming as part of addressing that.
I could move the engine over further - I've had it over further while it was all out of whack - but I'm trying to avoid that on principal.
I am also considering a truck mount on the driver's side to get rid of that stack of shims. AFAICT, those are about 1/2" thicker.
340sFastback
Well-Known Member
My K Frame to Frame Rail bolts have a big taper which locates the K Frame with zero tolerance. So it always sits in one location no way for it to be off. All I have to do is get bolts started in frame rails and once they run up the taper by bolt head precisely locates K Frame on Frame Rails. Your bolts don't have the taper?
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