SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Can anyone tell me the driveshaft length on a 1963 Dart Convertible? I don't have the original and can't find the length in google land.
Driveshaft Length
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Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
That's because '63-'65 A bodies had driveshafts that used a front ball & trunnion joint, so the normal U joint center-to-center measurement doesn't apply there.
If by chance you've swapped in a later slip joint transmission, the measurement from a '66 Dart should get you in the ballpark; but the length will differ depending on what transmission you've got. but the length will differ depending on But there's still nothing like getting under there and measuring for yourself- especially if you've also swapped a different rear end under there, too. Use the method preferred by your driveshaft shop or supplier; and if you've got someone than can/will build you a B&T driveshaft, follow their directions PRECISELY- or better yet, get the car to them.
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Thanks for the reply, Professor. The engine/trans is a 318/46RH combo that is not anywhere close to being put into the car. I'm trying to do some math to figure out if I can use the stock trans mount location, some stock length driveshaft, and move the engine forward a bit as to avoid the interference with the firewall.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
I'll assume you've read this sticky thread:
42RH / A-500 in a Duster with pictures.
Even though it focuses on a later Duster, it will give you some idea of the tunnel and crossmember mods needed to get an overdrive into your car- but keep in mind that the early As have even more restrictive tunnels and a tighter crossmember than the later As, so your mods will need to be a bit more extensive. You will pretty much be fabbing a new crossmember from scratch, so the need to relocate the trans mount is just part of the game.
Moving the engine forward is going to cause all kinds of issues with the oil pan and radiator clearances, and exhaust clearance to the steering column and box, as well as the steering linkage... by the time you modify all that, it probably would be easier to have done a couple of minor firewall/wiper mods to get it to fit in the stock location. JMO.
42RH / A-500 in a Duster with pictures.
Even though it focuses on a later Duster, it will give you some idea of the tunnel and crossmember mods needed to get an overdrive into your car- but keep in mind that the early As have even more restrictive tunnels and a tighter crossmember than the later As, so your mods will need to be a bit more extensive. You will pretty much be fabbing a new crossmember from scratch, so the need to relocate the trans mount is just part of the game.
Moving the engine forward is going to cause all kinds of issues with the oil pan and radiator clearances, and exhaust clearance to the steering column and box, as well as the steering linkage... by the time you modify all that, it probably would be easier to have done a couple of minor firewall/wiper mods to get it to fit in the stock location. JMO.
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The Dart GT
1963 Dodge Dart GT Convertible
Mine is exactly 57" from the rear yolk to where it goes into the adapter that mounts to the transmission. But I can't tell how long that part of the shaft is because it's inside the housing. I'll add a photo when I check again tomorrow.
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Thank you sir. Your dart looks almost exactly like mine, color and everything.
If you are going to get one made they should give you a sheet to fill out and what to measure...
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
I'm actually looking to see if I can find one off another model. Jigsawing this thing together.
ah cool
good luck!
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
best thing to do is go under and measure what you need..
The Dart GT
1963 Dodge Dart GT Convertible
Yeah. For some reason I think 90% of the '63s were white. Dodge must have had a good deal on white paint. In the picture the, front of the car is on the right. The end of the shaft goes inside that round adapter that hooks to the transmission. So it's hard to tell how long the actual shaft is. If you assume the shaft goes the entire entire length of the adapter, then the total length of the shaft would be 60". I hope that helps a little.
The Dart GT
1963 Dodge Dart GT Convertible
By the way, regarding the V8 in the '63. The first year they offered the V8 in the Dart was '64 (273 only). I have seen two 273 V8s installed in the '63 and it took a bit of modification to the firewall. In the '63 the wiper motor protrudes into the engine bay. See the bump in the photo of my card. This bump gets in the way of the distributor on a V8. You have to remove the wiper motor (you probably won't be driving it in the rain anyway) and cut out the bump and fatten out the firewall. See the second picture of a '64 firewall and notice how flat it is.
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Thanks for the info, GT. I am looking at trying to move the motor forward to avoid the interference. I would like to go to a built I already need a new oil pan and radiator. I'm going to use electric fans
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
You're opening up a real can of worms trying to move the engine.
You're not the first one down this road, not by a longshot. Instead of making twice the work for yourself and risk a stalled or abandoned project, do your due diligence and research it.
Here, I'll even get you started:
63 dart v8 swap
Scody21
Just send it
I had one made a few years ago and it was about 400 bucks for the weld yolks, tube, u-joints and labor. I supplied the slip yolk. Not really something you want to cheep out on… just ask anyone that’s dropped a drive shaft…
I have a drive shaft from an early A body with the ball and trunnion and I also have a drive shaft from a Duster. Figure out the length you need and let me know.
Moving the engine forward is the worst possible thing you can do for vehicle handling and general vehicle feel. You'll regret it. DO you know WL Kitchens? He's getting old now, but go by and talk to him. He'll tell you.
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
I'm terms of weight distribution and center of mass, even pushing it forward a few inches, the CoM of my 318/A518 will be behind the stock 225/904.
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Well, I'm trying to save some work. My A518 is already longer than the 904 or 727. Moving it forward will allow me to reuse the trans mount location. I'm already replacing the oil pan, so using a rear sump pan from a truck will create some clearance with the k member and should allow me to reuse the stock center link. I'm already replacing the exhaust manifolds, so I'll be fitting some rear dump manifolds to alleviate the clearance with the power steering. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong, but at the moment it makes sense. I'm a ways off from actually implementing my plan. This is my research, asking all of you experts here on FABO.
You're opening up a real can of worms trying to move the engine.
You're not the first one down this road, not by a longshot. Instead of making twice the work for yourself and risk a stalled or abandoned project, do your due diligence and research it.
Here, I'll even get you started:
63 dart v8 swap
Thanks for the link. I've seen this thread, but I keep losing it.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
Moving the engine forward does a number of things (other than destroying an already marginal front/rear weight bias):
It puts the nose of the water pump right in the area formerly occupied by the radiator and the hood latch mechanism. You can't move the radiator forward because that's where the grille and bumper is.
Using a truck oil pan requires moving the engine forward ~7" give or take, but the sump is 1 1/2 inches longer than the A body pan, so it will still require reworking anyways in order to maintain adequate K frame/steering linkage clearances. In addition, the main body (not the sump, the main body) of the truck pan is >1" deeper than the A body pan, which will require you to raise the engine higher in the engine bay in order to maintain proper clearance to the K frame- and depending on your manifold/carb choices, there goes all your hood clearance. Moving the engine forward also eliminates your ability to use the K frame for engine mounting, so you're stuck with buying/building an engine plate.
Your plan to use rear dump exhaust manifolds puts the exhaust dump right where your steering box currently is. Your choice of power steering only makes things even more restricted in an early A body, which is extremely cramped to begin with.
The 46RH transmission's mount is ~8ish inches further back than a standard automatic, so as far as the trans goes that's about how far you'd have to move it forward- but you'll STILL have to cut your crossmember, since there just isn't enough clearance for the overdrive extension housing; an early A just barely clears a standard tailshaft housing. And you can't just gain clearance by mounting the tailshaft lower by, let's say, 3". Remember- you already had to RAISE the engine an inch or more... can you even imagine how far out of whack your driveline angles are now? Not to mention ground clearance at the tailshaft/crossmember. So, you'll be cutting your crossmember anyhow in order to get the transmission high enough to get workable angles, which is going to be even more extreme than normal since you've raised your engine an additional inch.
Look closely at this pic of a standard 727 (center) flanked by two different OD transmissions:
Note where the transmission mount is located on the normal transmission (red arrow) versus the OD trannies (green arrows). That's about an 8" difference, as I recall. And note the diameter difference in the tailshaft housings; early As BARELY clear a normal transmission- that's why you need to cut the crossmember hoop (and a bit of tunnel massaging) to get the ODs to fit, no matter where you mount them. And yes, you still need to modify/fabricate a new center bolt-in section to accommodate the bigger OD cross-section and trans mount location no matter where you mount the trans.
And back to your original question: Why is a stock driveshaft length even relevant here? It doesn't apply no matter how you do the swap, with the engine & trans mounted anywhere from 8-10 inches forward and hanging out of the front end of the car with a block plate where the radiator yoke should be, or in the stock location with a few comparatively easy tunnel and firewall/wiper motor mods- you'll need a custom length shaft regardless.
FWIW, USCT and Holley both offer crossmember kits to make the work go easier (none specific to early As, but you've got to cut & weld anyway, and they're sized to give you the proper clearances and mounting angles).
SlantSicknessDart63
Active Member
Thank you for the dissertation. I had no idea I could offend someone so much by asking a few questions. By the way, you got a few facts wrong in your paper there. If the mere idea of moving the engine forward offends you so much, by all means feel free to not respond to my posts. If it looks like this path is the wrong one, I'll pursue another. Thank you very much and have a nice weekend.
Professor Fate
Push the button, Max...
It doesn't offend me, the math just doesn't add up. The measurements were all taken off of actual parts, assemblies and cars in my possession this morning. Just trying to save you a TON of grief and frustration. I built my first early A in the late seventies, so if 45 years of experience with these makes no difference to you, then you're not really looking for advice- you've already made up your mind.
Good luck with that. I tried.
'Bye.
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