63 dart v8 swap
- Thread starter rj72cda
- Start date
-
You will be limited in your choice of radiator unless you cut the radiator support. I believe pre-65 was 19 inches instead of the more common 22 inch opening. You've already mentioned 2 of the biggies v8 center link and no dizzy clearance at the firewall.
grimreaper
Cross Member
Why do you need to modify anything on the firewall of a '63? The 63 and 64 are virtually identical under the hood and they put the 273 in the '64.
As you know you will need the dropped center link, either modified v-8 mounts from an early a-body or Schumaker conversion mounts.
And depending on which V-8.....
You need a center sump oil pan (not from a truck)
If you use the earlier iron water pump the stock radiator will work (if it has enough cooling capacity). Use a '65 water pump & your radiator lower hose lines up (360 water pump has lower hose on opposite side). If you use a 273 front cover & timing tab you will have to set TDC & mark the front dampener of a 360. The 360 timing cover marks are partially blocked when you use the early water pump.
Using the pulleys and alternator brackets from a 273 makes the job easy. (At least get them all from the same car so the pulleys line up) You will probably have to elongate one of the holes in the 273 crank pulley if you use a 360 as they have one hole offset.
You will probably want to use the 90 deg oil filter adapter from a 273.
Tap the air injection holes of later engines under the exhaust ports and plug with 1/8” pipe plugs.
Your biggest challenge will be exhaust. 273 manifolds don't flow the best. Headers are expensive. Not much else fits. Search for the discussions......
Modify the transmission crossmember to provide clearance for dual exhaust.
You will need a throttle pedal, cable, cable bracket and kickdown linkage(if using an auto) from a 273 car. You will probably require some individual modification to fit the new manifold.
Depending on what transmission you will use....
You can use a B&M flexplate (10239) to adapt a zero balance torque converter. If you want to use the early converter you will need a spacer as the pilot on the early converters is smaller. You can get that spacer ring from Torqueflite Patty. 206-365-1966. Another option is to put the front three main components from a 68 and later 904 into the early cable shifted 904, ending up with the later model input shaft, so you can use a later zero balanced torque converter. Or, have a custom torque converter made with the proper snout, input, and balance.
Clutch cars require a special flywheel with the counterbalance built in for a 360. (unless you zero balance the engine)
To use the larger bellhousing you will need a Z-bar from an A-body and shorten the cross shaft. Use the release lever from a B-body (11-7/8 OAL) with the fork pivot from the 273 bellhousing. Modify the z-bar bellhousing pivot to relocate the pivot ball.
I've probaly forgot several things. If I remember something else I'll add later.
What engine and tranny are you contemplating?
As you know you will need the dropped center link, either modified v-8 mounts from an early a-body or Schumaker conversion mounts.
And depending on which V-8.....
You need a center sump oil pan (not from a truck)
If you use the earlier iron water pump the stock radiator will work (if it has enough cooling capacity). Use a '65 water pump & your radiator lower hose lines up (360 water pump has lower hose on opposite side). If you use a 273 front cover & timing tab you will have to set TDC & mark the front dampener of a 360. The 360 timing cover marks are partially blocked when you use the early water pump.
Using the pulleys and alternator brackets from a 273 makes the job easy. (At least get them all from the same car so the pulleys line up) You will probably have to elongate one of the holes in the 273 crank pulley if you use a 360 as they have one hole offset.
You will probably want to use the 90 deg oil filter adapter from a 273.
Tap the air injection holes of later engines under the exhaust ports and plug with 1/8” pipe plugs.
Your biggest challenge will be exhaust. 273 manifolds don't flow the best. Headers are expensive. Not much else fits. Search for the discussions......
Modify the transmission crossmember to provide clearance for dual exhaust.
You will need a throttle pedal, cable, cable bracket and kickdown linkage(if using an auto) from a 273 car. You will probably require some individual modification to fit the new manifold.
Depending on what transmission you will use....
You can use a B&M flexplate (10239) to adapt a zero balance torque converter. If you want to use the early converter you will need a spacer as the pilot on the early converters is smaller. You can get that spacer ring from Torqueflite Patty. 206-365-1966. Another option is to put the front three main components from a 68 and later 904 into the early cable shifted 904, ending up with the later model input shaft, so you can use a later zero balanced torque converter. Or, have a custom torque converter made with the proper snout, input, and balance.
Clutch cars require a special flywheel with the counterbalance built in for a 360. (unless you zero balance the engine)
To use the larger bellhousing you will need a Z-bar from an A-body and shorten the cross shaft. Use the release lever from a B-body (11-7/8 OAL) with the fork pivot from the 273 bellhousing. Modify the z-bar bellhousing pivot to relocate the pivot ball.
I've probaly forgot several things. If I remember something else I'll add later.
What engine and tranny are you contemplating?
grimreaper
Cross Member
Oh ya, I'm sure you knowthis, but if you've got the six cylinder 904 you'll need a v-8 transmission....
C130 Chief
Mechanical Genius
No need to cut firewall, a hammer and block of wood will make the appropriate shallow depression. The radiator support can be modified (make hole wider) easily enough.
63 MorePar
Electric Larry
The wiper motor is located differently on the '63 A.The 273 was not an option then. The distributor and/or the fire wall will require some mods to clear. '64 & '65 A bodies had the wiper motor relocated and the fire wall was reshaped.
Me and my machinist friend took a stock LA electronic distributor, cut out about 2'' on the lathe and TIG welded it back together using the distributor shaft to line it up. We then shortened the shaft to match. I have not had a lick of trouble with it for over 10 years. I still had to ''adjust'' the fire wall slightly but not as much.
Schumaker conversion mounts are the way to go if you plan to use the stock slant six K member! They fit perfect the first time! No brainer. Mr Schumaker has an amazing wealth of knowledge regarding the early A body LA swap and it is definitely worth your time to give him a call!! He helped me 10 years ago when I started this project, and I continue to do buisness with him today.
If you plan to use a 727 you will need to modify the trans hump. I used a donor hump from a big Caddy and still got the carpet to work.
I think people out there are making the original two cable push button shifter set-up work on the newer single cable trans, but I went with a B&M floor shifter that worked with my bench seat. I use a reverse shift, manual valve body with a 3200rpm stall converter in my 727 behind my 340.
I used a universal aluminum radiator from Northern and made my own mounts. No mods to the O.E support. Be sure what side your waterpump inlet is before you order, they can be on either side depending on the vintage of your small block. I run a mechanical fan. Not enough room for an electric puller.
The kicker is the exhaust manifolds. Not a lot of choices. Stock early A body 273 manifolds are vey restrictive if you plan on building any kind of power. Spit Fire headers??? No thanks. See all the other FAB posts for the long story. I used Hedman tight tubes in the beginning and modified the drives side to fit without power steering. I did not have to touch the pass. side. Getting around the steering linkage was a plumbers nightmare! TTI & Doug's make long tube headers for $$$ and requires a clockable starter(I think?)and will not fit a 727. Not sure about power steering. I am currently modifying a set of Hedman Huslers to fit my '63 and hope to have them done this week with some photos. I did not want to cut the inner fender wells so I am attacking the headers instead.
I will get some photos out when I get to my home computer as I am on my lap top.
Go for the LA and you will have a little screamer no doubt!!!
This has been my experience with my build and this is how I dealt with the issues that I ran into. I may stand corrected and that is what this forum is for.
Opinions are like teeth! Some have 'um.. some don't.
Let's all learn & share!! :thumblef:
Have Fun!
Me and my machinist friend took a stock LA electronic distributor, cut out about 2'' on the lathe and TIG welded it back together using the distributor shaft to line it up. We then shortened the shaft to match. I have not had a lick of trouble with it for over 10 years. I still had to ''adjust'' the fire wall slightly but not as much.
Schumaker conversion mounts are the way to go if you plan to use the stock slant six K member! They fit perfect the first time! No brainer. Mr Schumaker has an amazing wealth of knowledge regarding the early A body LA swap and it is definitely worth your time to give him a call!! He helped me 10 years ago when I started this project, and I continue to do buisness with him today.
If you plan to use a 727 you will need to modify the trans hump. I used a donor hump from a big Caddy and still got the carpet to work.
I think people out there are making the original two cable push button shifter set-up work on the newer single cable trans, but I went with a B&M floor shifter that worked with my bench seat. I use a reverse shift, manual valve body with a 3200rpm stall converter in my 727 behind my 340.
I used a universal aluminum radiator from Northern and made my own mounts. No mods to the O.E support. Be sure what side your waterpump inlet is before you order, they can be on either side depending on the vintage of your small block. I run a mechanical fan. Not enough room for an electric puller.
The kicker is the exhaust manifolds. Not a lot of choices. Stock early A body 273 manifolds are vey restrictive if you plan on building any kind of power. Spit Fire headers??? No thanks. See all the other FAB posts for the long story. I used Hedman tight tubes in the beginning and modified the drives side to fit without power steering. I did not have to touch the pass. side. Getting around the steering linkage was a plumbers nightmare! TTI & Doug's make long tube headers for $$$ and requires a clockable starter(I think?)and will not fit a 727. Not sure about power steering. I am currently modifying a set of Hedman Huslers to fit my '63 and hope to have them done this week with some photos. I did not want to cut the inner fender wells so I am attacking the headers instead.
I will get some photos out when I get to my home computer as I am on my lap top.
Go for the LA and you will have a little screamer no doubt!!!
This has been my experience with my build and this is how I dealt with the issues that I ran into. I may stand corrected and that is what this forum is for.
Opinions are like teeth! Some have 'um.. some don't.
Let's all learn & share!! :thumblef:
Have Fun!
yea this is a simple 318/904 setup up from a 72 cuda that will rework a lil bit the car has been cut on for other stuff and im smoothing the firewall of the heater stuff anyway so a relief cut will do a much simpler job for me. thanks guys now to find that center link
grimreaper
Cross Member
PM sent on center link.
Djakken
Well-Known Member
Post some pics that might help.
My car is a 63 Dart GT with a 65 273.
What is changed is the center link, radiator to 22 ", exhaust manifold to headers.
The firewall behind the distributor is cut out and welded with a new plate.
The tranny is a 904 by 76 with floor shift.
Have also swapped to front disc brakes
Do not hesitate to contact me if you need more information or pics.
My car is a 63 Dart GT with a 65 273.
What is changed is the center link, radiator to 22 ", exhaust manifold to headers.
The firewall behind the distributor is cut out and welded with a new plate.
The tranny is a 904 by 76 with floor shift.
Have also swapped to front disc brakes
Do not hesitate to contact me if you need more information or pics.
Some homework is in order for you.
grimreaper
Cross Member
I guess so! I had a '63 Valiant wagon and put a 340/ 4spd from a wrecked Demon in it back in '75 and don't even remember having any firewall modifications. What I remember was having the 63 wagon and my 64 Barracuda sitting right next to one another and comparing while making the plan for the 340 swap. (especially the tunnel) Seems like a modification I'd remember, but then that was quite a few years ago!
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
Just a couple simple tips if not going for the correct look.
I used a 72 Duster gas peddle/cable,also when swapping to V8 904/8 3/4 I used a driveshaft from a 73 Swinger 318/904/7 1/4 just swapped u-joints to 7260/7290 fit with no problems.Good luck and post pics.
I used a 72 Duster gas peddle/cable,also when swapping to V8 904/8 3/4 I used a driveshaft from a 73 Swinger 318/904/7 1/4 just swapped u-joints to 7260/7290 fit with no problems.Good luck and post pics.
Yeah, they're a good bit different. Remember, the 63 didn't have a V8 option and was actually built around the slant 6. 64 was the first year for the V8 and if you have them side by side, you can see a pretty drastic difference. I didn't know all that myself until I got my 63. But it really didn't matter to me, because I am sticking with the slant. The little cars are so light, it does not take much to make them move respectably.
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
If you use a 727 tranny, you will have to beat in the lip in the trans tunnel for room. You need a new driveshaft regardless, since your tranny will probably be the yoke type and I think your wheelbase is shorter. Most people upgrade the rear end, which usually means BBP wheels, so change the front end to match, or carry 2 spares. And your shift linkage will be very different, so start designing.
To summarize, as people say it is very easy - just change the entire drive-train, front and rear suspension, and major parts of the steering, plus cooling system and you are almost there. A lot of work to add 2 cylinders. Or you could turbo the 6 and be really cool, fast, and efficient.
To summarize, as people say it is very easy - just change the entire drive-train, front and rear suspension, and major parts of the steering, plus cooling system and you are almost there. A lot of work to add 2 cylinders. Or you could turbo the 6 and be really cool, fast, and efficient.
604B1duster
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2007
- Messages
- 1,500
- Reaction score
- 688
Nice car, what intake and carb on your 273 ? Thanks
Djakken
Well-Known Member
The intake is an Eddy D4B, dual plane intake. The carb is an Eddy 1406, 600 cfm. I have also a sharper cam.
khoffman
Member
63 MorePar
Electric Larry
Moparhead64
Well-Known Member
Nice job 63Morepar!
pishta
I know I'm right....
So why doesnt he design a header? I do thank him for the big block conversion mounts, but once again, he leaves you hanging with "you are on your own with exhaust..."
The V8 conversion is simple to do with shelf parts, just get the mount brackets from any 64-66 V8 car and insulators. Same K.
Nice job on those tight tubes, thats pretty sneaky! What about putting the #1 tube right into the #3 so there is no harsh angles? Just a thought....Im making some that are going to look very different, think LONG......
Schumacher is now making small block tri-y's but not sure if they fit early A's.
10 years ago He said no on doing small blocks after they made the Big Block tri-y's.
Maybe they will be on the drawing board next.
10 years ago He said no on doing small blocks after they made the Big Block tri-y's.
Maybe they will be on the drawing board next.
63 MorePar
Electric Larry
[Nice job on those tight tubes, thats pretty sneaky! What about putting the #1 tube right into the #3 so there is no harsh angles? Just a thought....Im making some that are going to look very different, think LONG......][/QUOTE]
Thanks Moparhead64 & pishta!
This was my first attempt at making something that might fit & work in this little bugger.I was still kinda green 15 years ago when it came to fabin,.
Pishta, I am doing a similar "long" tube set up as we speak. I scored a used set of 67 ^ A body Hedman Husler for $50 off ebay. And again the passenger side# 4 & 6 cyl fit like a glove. #8 cyl was intended to go through the inner fender as well as the #7 cyl on the drivers side.
Not anymore. I am making it all fit without fender mods. I got a set of misc. 1 7/8 long tube bends from Speedway and started puzzling it all together. They have 3 1/2 collector. I will most likely connect them to 2 1/2 reducers with a cross-over and 2 1/2 mufflers.
Let's share photos if you got some. I will post some of mine tonight.
To all: Any thoughts on my pipe size and muffler selections??? I was thinking black super 44s but I'm not sold on them. For now this is about a 350 -375 HP 340 with a 3200 stall manual 727 and 3.91:1 8 3/4, but plan to push up this 340 next winter.
Also, I am thinking of letting the Tight Tubes go up for sale. If any one has interest, make an offer/PM. They are Jet Hot coated and pretty clean.
Thanks everyone!
Thanks Moparhead64 & pishta!
This was my first attempt at making something that might fit & work in this little bugger.I was still kinda green 15 years ago when it came to fabin,.
Pishta, I am doing a similar "long" tube set up as we speak. I scored a used set of 67 ^ A body Hedman Husler for $50 off ebay. And again the passenger side# 4 & 6 cyl fit like a glove. #8 cyl was intended to go through the inner fender as well as the #7 cyl on the drivers side.
Not anymore. I am making it all fit without fender mods. I got a set of misc. 1 7/8 long tube bends from Speedway and started puzzling it all together. They have 3 1/2 collector. I will most likely connect them to 2 1/2 reducers with a cross-over and 2 1/2 mufflers.
Let's share photos if you got some. I will post some of mine tonight.
To all: Any thoughts on my pipe size and muffler selections??? I was thinking black super 44s but I'm not sold on them. For now this is about a 350 -375 HP 340 with a 3200 stall manual 727 and 3.91:1 8 3/4, but plan to push up this 340 next winter.
Also, I am thinking of letting the Tight Tubes go up for sale. If any one has interest, make an offer/PM. They are Jet Hot coated and pretty clean.
Thanks everyone!
Optik
Well-Known Member
-
