edelbrock magnum head flow?

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1bad360duster

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So i have a set of edelbrock magnums that were fully ported, valve job, 2.05 intake valves...and flow about 290cfm at .600. What could i expect to gain if i ran an offset rocker and eliminated the pushrod pinch? is hughes the only ones who make the offset rockers for this setup? how about moving up to a 2.08 or 2.1 intake valve? could these heads fit a 2.1? any other tricks that could be done to pick up some cfm? these are on a stock stroke 360 that ran 11.10 at 120 with a rpm air gap. thinking about changing to a 408-426-436 motor with a tunnel ram and two carbs down the road.
 
You can fit a 2.100 valve in there, but it’s damn close. You have to have the guides spot on or the valves will rub. You can use a 1.550 exhaust valve IF you use a 50 or 52 degree seat to get some more room.

Even if you remove the pushrod pinch it’s hard for that port shape and size to properly feed a 2.100 or even a 2.080 valve.

Removing the pinch is always good but it almost never shows any real improvement on the flow bench.

That’s why shape is as important as what the flow bench says and I can make the argument that shape is more important than what the flow bench says.
 
so what is it exactly about the shape that holds it back? im interested to learn. is it the sides, short side, roof needs raised etc? where is the big drawback in shape for this particuliar head? Also so removing the pinch may show no gain on bench...but how would it translate to the dyno? thanks for any info
 
Can you use an offset rocker on the eddy magnum head?...stud mount?
 
Those heads are capable of low to mid 10's as is....just my 2 cents as a fellow E-brock head user.
 
well i would like to run 10.00's in 3300 duster but not sure if that would be possible out of them. low 10s for sure though with more cubes and bigger cam/tunnel ram
 
Just my opinion, but....
It seems to me your intake is much more likely to be the cork, than the cyl head pinch. Why wait for the 408? Try a tunnel ram now.
Check out some of Pittsburgh racer's porting and flowbench posts. I'll bet that intake flows a lot less than your heads.
 
i may do that! but will need to get heads drilled for la intake...anyways just thinking and planning for future build. Like i said would like to eventually get to 10.00s on motor. I do think with what i have now it could run 10.60s to 70s. My converter is setup for n20 and tight at 3800 stall as well as restrictive air gap
 
well i would like to run 10.00's in 3300 duster but not sure if that would be possible out of them. low 10s for sure though with more cubes and bigger cam/tunnel ram
Well, if this helps, my car is 3250 with me in it and its current best is 10.19 (that is with a solid flat tappet cam, ported Edelbrocks, Victor intake and my home built e85 carb). I think it has a 10.0 in it with better conditions, but usually it runs 10.3-10.2 most of the summer.

If you want 10.0's it would be easier with a ported Indy head...not saying you can't with an E-brock (cause people do it), just saying it would be easier.
 
so what is it exactly about the shape that holds it back? im interested to learn. is it the sides, short side, roof needs raised etc? where is the big drawback in shape for this particuliar head? Also so removing the pinch may show no gain on bench...but how would it translate to the dyno? thanks for any info


You can’t get the cross section big enough to feed that valve size. You are probably better off with a 50 degree valve job and the size valve you have.

Look at the shape of a W2 port, and then go look at the shape of some of the best heads going today and you will see a similar shape. A rectangle port is what you use when you can’t get an oval shape big enough to feed the valve size/CID/RPM you are using.

Again, removing the pinch rarely shows up on a flow bench, if at all. BUT...I’ll say it again, you have to look at the shape of the port. Every time you have a change in cross section, you have a flow loss. In a steady state test you may not see it, but it’s there. When you consider the dynamic situation of a port you can see why any change in cross section is not good. You just have to live it unless you can get it out.

Look down your port from the intake port and look at how many cross section changes you have. At the pinch. Then on the valve side of the pinch you have a divergent port wall (it is divergent from the common wall) running right to the bowl.

Not much you can do about that. The W2 takes most of that out, plus the pinch. It’s about minimizing compromises.

I’m all for the tunnel ram if you can find one. They are damned hard to find and they are getting expensive. If you can get the Weiand it’s a real nice piece. Make sure you think it ALL the way through. Start at the fuel tank and work you way forward. I’d run an electric pump and a bypass system. So you need a pump and regulator. Then you need TWO carbs. At 408 inches I would use a 1.375 venturi and a 1.688 throttle bore. Maybe, maybe a 1.750 throttle bore. If you get bigger than that (ignore carb CFM ratings and select a carb based on the two above metrics) you will certainly need annular boosters and they may not be a bad idea anyway. You need to buy carbs that have replaceable brass for everything, not just the main jets. I would use a Holley clone. I hate Holley with a passion because of how they have mislead and kept ignorant the end user. So I don’t buy their stuff unless I absolutely have no other option. I’m not a fan of the Carterbrock carbs because you just can’t tune them as easily as a Holley carb. You can’t separate the main circuit from the power circuit like you can with a Holley. Remember the clones are the same.

Also, you need to think about the surface finish of the manifold. A cold intake with that much surface area will benefit from a burr finish. If you do a Holley clone, you need to order the correct floats for a TR. Those floats have a wedge shape to them. When you tune the carbs sideways with the standard floats, every time you drop the hammer the fuel moves to the back of the bowls and it will raise the float and shut off the fuel at the needle and seat. That’s not good.

You will certainly need to change some brass to correct the idle circuit. And probably the power valve channel restrictors. You may have to do some drilling and tapping to get it done but it’s easy.

If I think of something else I’ll post it. I’d think long and hard about increasing the valve size. And I’d think the TR all the way through. It’s not cheap to do it right, but done correctly you have more bottom and middle RPM power than you can with any other manifold. And don’t buy an off the shelf cam. Call someone and have them help you. And don’t let the nattering nay bobs and whiz bang in gym shorts types tell you the linkage for sideways mounted carbs is a problem. If you can operate a pop up toaster you can handle that linkage.
 
So i have a set of edelbrock magnums that were fully ported, valve job, 2.05 intake valves...and flow about 290cfm at .600. What could i expect to gain if i ran an offset rocker and eliminated the pushrod pinch? is hughes the only ones who make the offset rockers for this setup? how about moving up to a 2.08 or 2.1 intake valve? could these heads fit a 2.1? any other tricks that could be done to pick up some cfm? these are on a stock stroke 360 that ran 11.10 at 120 with a rpm air gap. thinking about changing to a 408-426-436 motor with a tunnel ram and two carbs down the road.

what is the total combo consist of. Weight, cam, convertor, etc, etc.
 
The current combo is 360 magnum block with just a ball hone on factory cylinder. Stock rods, stock crank, icon stock bore pistons. 10.7 to 1. Edelbrockd 290 cfm. 1 5/8 headers and 239/247 at 50 cam .605 lift. Rpm air gap and 750 dp. 9.5 inch converter 3800 stall for n20. Car went 11.12 at 121 with no real tuning as car had no roll bar. Bar is going in now and will be spraying up to 200 shot soon
 
You can’t get the cross section big enough to feed that valve size. You are probably better off with a 50 degree valve job and the size valve you have.

Look at the shape of a W2 port, and then go look at the shape of some of the best heads going today and you will see a similar shape. A rectangle port is what you use when you can’t get an oval shape big enough to feed the valve size/CID/RPM you are using.

Again, removing the pinch rarely shows up on a flow bench, if at all. BUT...I’ll say it again, you have to look at the shape of the port. Every time you have a change in cross section, you have a flow loss. In a steady state test you may not see it, but it’s there. When you consider the dynamic situation of a port you can see why any change in cross section is not good. You just have to live it unless you can get it out.

Look down your port from the intake port and look at how many cross section changes you have. At the pinch. Then on the valve side of the pinch you have a divergent port wall (it is divergent from the common wall) running right to the bowl.

Not much you can do about that. The W2 takes most of that out, plus the pinch. It’s about minimizing compromises.

I’m all for the tunnel ram if you can find one. They are damned hard to find and they are getting expensive. If you can get the Weiand it’s a real nice piece. Make sure you think it ALL the way through. Start at the fuel tank and work you way forward. I’d run an electric pump and a bypass system. So you need a pump and regulator. Then you need TWO carbs. At 408 inches I would use a 1.375 venturi and a 1.688 throttle bore. Maybe, maybe a 1.750 throttle bore. If you get bigger than that (ignore carb CFM ratings and select a carb based on the two above metrics) you will certainly need annular boosters and they may not be a bad idea anyway. You need to buy carbs that have replaceable brass for everything, not just the main jets. I would use a Holley clone. I hate Holley with a passion because of how they have mislead and kept ignorant the end user. So I don’t buy their stuff unless I absolutely have no other option. I’m not a fan of the Carterbrock carbs because you just can’t tune them as easily as a Holley carb. You can’t separate the main circuit from the power circuit like you can with a Holley. Remember the clones are the same.

Also, you need to think about the surface finish of the manifold. A cold intake with that much surface area will benefit from a burr finish. If you do a Holley clone, you need to order the correct floats for a TR. Those floats have a wedge shape to them. When you tune the carbs sideways with the standard floats, every time you drop the hammer the fuel moves to the back of the bowls and it will raise the float and shut off the fuel at the needle and seat. That’s not good.

You will certainly need to change some brass to correct the idle circuit. And probably the power valve channel restrictors. You may have to do some drilling and tapping to get it done but it’s easy.

If I think of something else I’ll post it. I’d think long and hard about increasing the valve size. And I’d think the TR all the way through. It’s not cheap to do it right, but done correctly you have more bottom and middle RPM power than you can with any other manifold. And don’t buy an off the shelf cam. Call someone and have them help you. And don’t let the nattering nay bobs and whiz bang in gym shorts types tell you the linkage for sideways mounted carbs is a problem. If you can operate a pop up toaster you can handle that linkage.
Thanks for all this info and thoughts. Appreciate it. I have a 750 brawler race carb Holley style. Was thinking to get identical one and make changes as you said for tram. I’ve seen some say that porting the edelbrocks you run out of room at the top near valve cover rail. If I was to make valve cover spacer and weld up top of runners so I could raise port how much would that help or is that counterproductive? I have access to mill, Cnc and tig so I could do that.
 
upload_2021-5-10_23-14-33.jpeg

I just picked up this from a member here for a great deal so this is the cause of the wheels turning lol. I have a Weiand top I will adapt or design and fab a plenum from scratch myself. But I’m picturing a 408 or 426 with bigger cam, bigger headers, tram and dual 750s and an 8 inch verter. Just need to squeeze a bit more out of the heads. But obviously I’m just bench racing here and a lot of thought will have to go into the future combo. Just getting some ideas here
 
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I think you have pretty good heads already.
As an example i just took out a stock stroke 360. Stock everything bottom end..rods, pistons, crank.
950, airgap, 1 5/8 headers. Maybe 10 to 1
Cam was 260/264, 565/565 lift, 8 inch vert, 3320 race weight
Heads were eddies that went a tiny bit better than stock...255 at 550 lift. 11.26@119.....
With the right cam and vert your combo is capable of easy 10’s.
I just installed a 4 inch stroke motor with same cam, heads now go 272@550, same headers,more compression...10.70’s with bugs still to work out...
With your heads the way they are, you could go low 10’s easily with a stroker
 
I think you have pretty good heads already.
As an example i just took out a stock stroke 360. Stock everything bottom end..rods, pistons, crank.
950, airgap, 1 5/8 headers. Maybe 10 to 1
Cam was 260/264, 565/565 lift, 8 inch vert, 3320 race weight
Heads were eddies that went a tiny bit better than stock...255 at 550 lift. 11.26@119.....
With the right cam and vert your combo is capable of easy 10’s.
I just installed a 4 inch stroke motor with same cam, heads now go 272@550, same headers,more compression...10.70’s with bugs still to work out...
With your heads the way they are, you could go low 10’s easily with a stroker
Totally agree with you, just kind of throwing around ideas bench racing of what could be possible if I wanted to do a max effort on the heads I already have. But yea I do think they are capable of very low tens with right combo as is. For the meantime I will be looking to run high nines on bottle as is. Converter is definitely right for that
 
View attachment 1715735902
I just picked up this from a member here for a great deal so this is the cause of the wheels turning lol. I have a Weiand top I will adapt or design and fab a plenum from scratch myself. But I’m picturing a 408 or 426 with bigger cam, bigger headers, tram and dual 750s and an 8 inch verter. Just need to squeeze a bit more out of the heads. But obviously I’m just bench racing here and a lot of thought will have to go into the future combo. Just getting some ideas here


I hope you can find a top if it didn’t come with one. I don’t care for that big bread box top but you may not have a choice.
 
I hope you can find a top if it didn’t come with one. I don’t care for that big bread box top but you may not have a choice.
i have one of these that i can adapt to fit, or fab my own plenum. not too big of a deal. I have seen those really big plenum tops for it but not sure exactly how they perform...what is the reasoning behind them?
Vintage-Weiand-Tunnel-Ram-Top-Dual-Quad-Four.jpg
 
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