ramman7284
Well-Known Member
ya im talking bout 10 after top dead thats where i stopped at cause i was loosing light outside
engine chuggin
- Thread starter ramman7284
- Start date
-
ya im talking bout 10 after top dead thats where i stopped at cause i was loosing light outside
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
I'll admit ramman that i don't have a lot of knowledge swapping early and late covers and balancers. I'm assuming that since the cranks are interchangable, the crank keys are in the same location and the difference is the marks on the outer rings of the balancers. That's why i was thinking if you used eveything from the later engine you'd be good. It may very well come down to checking absolute TDC with a piston stop as 67Dart273 spoke of.
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
i was turning it counter clockwise and it was showin retarding it my vac adv is almost pointing straight forward if not point pretty close to cyl 2 or 4
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
well like i said when i get enough daylight im checking all that cause i wasnt the one that put the dist in. now i know i had to do all that at work on a dam ford recently with a dead cyl
green1
Well-Known Member
I got lost on this thread. It doesn't matter where the vac is pointed. Diss-connect it. Timing cover swaps? think in 72.
Just do this; disconnect vac advance. put a vacuum gauge on intake manifold fitting. Start it, run at idle, move the dissy all over, until, you get the highest reading. That is your initial, that your engine want's.
now, somebody that remembers will chime in, I think it is, on the timing cover swap 40 degrees difference. It's gonna take a 360 balancer tape. Now you have to pull mechanical advance out of the dist, to keep ping and det away.
or, as said, find tdc, file a new mark on balancer, then add tape. Find idle first.
Just do this; disconnect vac advance. put a vacuum gauge on intake manifold fitting. Start it, run at idle, move the dissy all over, until, you get the highest reading. That is your initial, that your engine want's.
now, somebody that remembers will chime in, I think it is, on the timing cover swap 40 degrees difference. It's gonna take a 360 balancer tape. Now you have to pull mechanical advance out of the dist, to keep ping and det away.
or, as said, find tdc, file a new mark on balancer, then add tape. Find idle first.
C130 Chief
Mechanical Genius
Water pump inlet changed for 1970, as did the timing cover and crank damper. They should be matched to prevent confusion. An early (iron) water pump on a later timing cover make the timing marks difficult to see. A later (aluminum) water pump on an early cover make them darn near impossible. An early damper with a late cover or vice-versa make the marks meaningless.
At this point my advice is to make sure everything is lined up correctly with #1 cylinder at TDC. So first you need to make sure the PISTON is at TDC. A piston stop makes this easier, but it can be done with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole. Once the piston is at TDC then you can verify your mark on the damper. If it's the original 1968 damper the chances are pretty good that the outer ring has moved. That doesn't matter, make new marks with a sharpie. Then verify that your distributor is installed correctly. That is, the rotor should point towards the left front intake bolt, and the advance should point more or less to the antenna hole in the fender. If the rotor, or more specifically the drive slot in the intermediate shaft does not point at the left forward intake bolt the shaft has been installed wrong (or the valve timing is off). You also want the rotor to be pointing at the #1 wire on the cap. You may have to shift the wires on the cap. The reluctor should be just slightly past the center of the pickup. Now the engine is mechanically timed enough to start and idle. Now is also a good time to make sure the mechanical advance is free. Twist the rotor clockwise. It should turn about 10 degrees and then spring back when released.
Next, get the carb to a good starting point. Disconnect the vacuum hose to the advance and cap the nipple on the carb (right side). All other vacuum lines (PCV, booster, heater control) should be connected, and any unused nipples capped. Set each idle mixture screw 2 turns out. The engine should start and idle.
Start the engine and adjust the idle speed as needed to get it to keep running. Use a timing light to see where you are now, should be close to TDC. If you have an accurate mark, set something reasonable like 10 degrees BTDC for a stock 318. Trim idle mix and speed as needed, you should be able to get a smooth idle at 800 RPM or so. If you determined your marks were off, or they're hard to see set the timing by ear. To do this, advance the distributor (counter clockwise) to the highest idle RPM and then back it off just a little. Trim idle mix and speed as needed, you should be able to get a smooth idle at 800 RPM or so. If you haven't verified the float levels in the carb, now would be a good time to do so.
Now, with a reasonable timing baseline set, and the carb adjusted well enough to idle smooth take a test drive. Leave the vacuum advance disconnected and capped at the carb. The car should drive OK with no major bogs or stumbles at light to mid throttle. I wouldn't expect stellar throttle response just yet, but it should be driveable. Driveable enough to go to the store and buy a vacuum gauge.
Once you get this far report back and we'll help you get it dialed in better.
At this point my advice is to make sure everything is lined up correctly with #1 cylinder at TDC. So first you need to make sure the PISTON is at TDC. A piston stop makes this easier, but it can be done with a screwdriver in the spark plug hole. Once the piston is at TDC then you can verify your mark on the damper. If it's the original 1968 damper the chances are pretty good that the outer ring has moved. That doesn't matter, make new marks with a sharpie. Then verify that your distributor is installed correctly. That is, the rotor should point towards the left front intake bolt, and the advance should point more or less to the antenna hole in the fender. If the rotor, or more specifically the drive slot in the intermediate shaft does not point at the left forward intake bolt the shaft has been installed wrong (or the valve timing is off). You also want the rotor to be pointing at the #1 wire on the cap. You may have to shift the wires on the cap. The reluctor should be just slightly past the center of the pickup. Now the engine is mechanically timed enough to start and idle. Now is also a good time to make sure the mechanical advance is free. Twist the rotor clockwise. It should turn about 10 degrees and then spring back when released.
Next, get the carb to a good starting point. Disconnect the vacuum hose to the advance and cap the nipple on the carb (right side). All other vacuum lines (PCV, booster, heater control) should be connected, and any unused nipples capped. Set each idle mixture screw 2 turns out. The engine should start and idle.
Start the engine and adjust the idle speed as needed to get it to keep running. Use a timing light to see where you are now, should be close to TDC. If you have an accurate mark, set something reasonable like 10 degrees BTDC for a stock 318. Trim idle mix and speed as needed, you should be able to get a smooth idle at 800 RPM or so. If you determined your marks were off, or they're hard to see set the timing by ear. To do this, advance the distributor (counter clockwise) to the highest idle RPM and then back it off just a little. Trim idle mix and speed as needed, you should be able to get a smooth idle at 800 RPM or so. If you haven't verified the float levels in the carb, now would be a good time to do so.
Now, with a reasonable timing baseline set, and the carb adjusted well enough to idle smooth take a test drive. Leave the vacuum advance disconnected and capped at the carb. The car should drive OK with no major bogs or stumbles at light to mid throttle. I wouldn't expect stellar throttle response just yet, but it should be driveable. Driveable enough to go to the store and buy a vacuum gauge.
Once you get this far report back and we'll help you get it dialed in better.
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
Just curious does that look right that's at top dead center
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
who knows how the drive was stabbed the last time it was out. if its at tdc then wire it accordingly
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
Ok well I was movin the dist in the wrong direction it's set to 10 before top dead runs alil better but still chugs right before I get to half throttle before it was bout quarter when it started to chug
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
Was this a new carb or did you get it used? If used, have you confirmed what primary jetting is in it. Almost sounds like someone tried to lean it out with jetting which for the most part, Holley's don't like very much.
If you go wide open throttle does it pull smoothly up thru the rpm's?
If you go wide open throttle does it pull smoothly up thru the rpm's?
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
It's a new carb and I haven't given it full throttle even I go slow it stil does it I guess I should say it starts missing and I dnt c gas goin on the butterflies at idle
OldmanRick
Well-Known Member
Well, first off, while you can use a little more initial timing then 10* BTDC, it still shouldn't be bucking/chugging with the timing you have now. One other thought is, i looked up the power valve that comes in the 600DP and it doesn't open until 6.5" of vacuum. Considering a stock 318, you're probably making 18-20" of vacuum at idle and cruise rpm and you may be going lean at part throttle because of that. It would take quite a bit of throttle opening to drop the vacuum that far and that's the reason i asked about wide open throttle. A 10.5" valve would probably be more appropriate? By the way, the stock jetting should be a #66 jet which should be fine for your application with that carb....Just a few of my thoughts.
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
I'm possibly thinkin my chain is to loose cause I was movin it when I had the fuel pump out and it was movin bout 1/2in or morr
I am still thinking the intake is way to big/tall and using up all of your Vacuum on your 318, My brother had a 318 in his truck he bought that had a tall high rise intake on it
and it ran and started but never could get moving very good, I talked him into changing it to a stock steal 4 Barrel intake and he was suprised how well it ran and easy starting.
Before we changed the intake he could not pull out in traffic well, after the swap he could roast the tires and get up to speed 4 times faster. To much intake JMO.
and it ran and started but never could get moving very good, I talked him into changing it to a stock steal 4 Barrel intake and he was suprised how well it ran and easy starting.
Before we changed the intake he could not pull out in traffic well, after the swap he could roast the tires and get up to speed 4 times faster. To much intake JMO.
C130 Chief
Mechanical Genius
That 318 doesn't still have it's original timing chain and nylon toothed cam sprocket?!?
They usually don't just slip one tooth when they fail. Rather the teeth on the cam sprocket all strip off and you end up with bent valves. But if your valve timing was one tooth late the engine would be a total slug.
I agree with the PV issue on the carb that's why I mentioned buying a vacuum gauge in my earlier post. You can't do squat to a Holley without one. A too low number PV will give you a part-mid throttle bog that you can "step through" that is, if you open the throttle more you'll drop the vacuum enough to open the PV and the engine will suddenly start making power. Annoying as heck in traffic.
They usually don't just slip one tooth when they fail. Rather the teeth on the cam sprocket all strip off and you end up with bent valves. But if your valve timing was one tooth late the engine would be a total slug.
I agree with the PV issue on the carb that's why I mentioned buying a vacuum gauge in my earlier post. You can't do squat to a Holley without one. A too low number PV will give you a part-mid throttle bog that you can "step through" that is, if you open the throttle more you'll drop the vacuum enough to open the PV and the engine will suddenly start making power. Annoying as heck in traffic.
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
That's a possible chance cause even with the 2bbl this thing was never able to smoke the tires even tho the guy I bought it off of said he smoked the tires in parking lot like nothing
ramman7284
Well-Known Member
Well I was listening to the wrong ppl I stead of myself my grandpa was sayin it was to rich cause he said it was smelling like gas i stood at the back of the car and it started to burn my eyes I started to richen it up and it started to respond alot better I think I still need to go more cause its still missing
-
