Engine goes... KNOCK!

-
M

MB43

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 12, 2004
Messages
2,032
Reaction score
3
Location
No
So I went out to Island Dragway this morning. We get there and find a while lineup of cars sitting on the entrance road, nobody's moving. Finally we find out that the track is "seeping", lots of water around half track so they're not gonna let any cars with slicks run. So we leave, thinking that we're gonna head to Englishtown. 5 minutes later we see a bunch of people hanging out in a parking lot so we pulled in to see what was going. Nothing, just a bunch of people hanging out.

Anyway... the guy I went with just needed to make his license runs, so we decided to go back to Island to see if he can make a couple of 60' and half-track runs, even though he has slicks. And since we drove 2 hours to get there we decided to stick it out. When we get there we find the place pretty much empty aside from a bunch of street cars. We check out the track, no water to be found. They kept cleaning the track and running street cars, then a bunch of cars with slicks made some runs and there were no issue. So we unloaded and decided to make some runs.

I decided to make a run at like 1/2 to 3/4 throttle, just in case... Engine started fine, burnout no problem, launch, run, everything ok. Ran a 13 something, but like I said it was only about 3/4 throttle.

When I started the car (cold), the oil pressure was around 45 like it
always is. After crossing the finish line and letting off the gas, I looked
at the temp & oil pressure, both were normal... temp was around 170, oil
pressure was around 35. I came around, pulled in by my truck and pulled the
hood off so I could make sure nothing was leaking or anything else bad. I was
going to pull a couple of spark plugs out to see how they looked when my
buddy told me it was making a funky noise when I pulled in. So I started it
up again, I couldn't hear the knock from the car but when I poked my head
over by the motor I could hear it. I thought that maybe the torque converter bolts had come loose - that had happened once before to me and sounded a lot like this - but I checked them and none were loose.

I had issues with coolant (water) getting into the oil when I put this intake on, but that seems to have been fixed.

So, tomorrow I'll drain the oil, pull off the oil filter and cut it open to see if there's any metal in it. I have a feeling there will be.

Sad. :-(
 
I'm sorry you drove around in circles and then to just have that outcome just plain sucks. Maybe it's just a bad waterpump knocking around. You can always hope.
 
I'll be a hopin' and a prayin' that it's somethin' simple..........

Off topic..........Is that YOU in the picture (the avatar), and is that a Rick you're playin'? :-D
 
I'm not gonna speculate until I cut open the oil filter... cuz that always get me into trouble. ;-)

That's not me in the picture, that's Lemmy from Motorhead. And yes, it's a Rick.
 
Well, I finally got the oil filter off. There's little bits of metal in it. So I guess that means I'm pulling the motor out and will have to rebuild.

The question is... what do I need to do now? I'm guessing that the crank will have to come out, maybe get cut if it's scored. What else?
 
If you haven't spun a bearing and if the scoring runs around the circumference of the crank, you may be able to just replace the bearings if the scoring is not too deep (catch a fingernail). On a pure race car, bigger clearances are the norm anyway. Think of the scored crank as a fully grooved bearing in reverse.

Replace your oil pump with a good high volume pump if your not running tight street clearances (ie. scored crank). The bearing crap probably destoyed your pump anyway. I've always used Melling pumps and never had a problem.

If your crank is trashed just get a stroker crank and pistons while your at it. WTF, you've gotta pull the damn thing apart anyway.

Check your cam bearings! If anything flaked off they must be replaced and all of your oil passages brushed out. Check your rockers and shafts and clean the crap out them.

Actually, strip that block down and clean everything wether you have cam bearing damage or not.

Sorry man. This must suck.
 
ramcharger said:
If you haven't spun a bearing and if the scoring runs around the circumference of the crank, you may be able to just replace the bearings if the scoring is not too deep (catch a fingernail). On a pure race car, bigger clearances are the norm anyway. Think of the scored crank as a fully grooved bearing in reverse.

Replace your oil pump with a good high volume pump if your not running tight street clearances (ie. scored crank). The bearing crap probably destoyed your pump anyway. I've always used Melling pumps and never had a problem.

If your crank is trashed just get a stroker crank and pistons while your at it. WTF, you've gotta pull the damn thing apart anyway.

Check your cam bearings! If anything flaked off they must be replaced and all of your oil passages brushed out. Check your rockers and shafts and clean the crap out them.

Actually, strip that block down and clean everything wether you have cam bearing damage or not.

Sorry man. This must suck.
Click to expand...

So pretty much what you're saying is that no matter what, I've got to strip this down to the bare block?
 
If you have metal in your oil filter or at the bottom of your oil pan, the answer is yes. Otherwise the little bearing flakes will cause havoc with your oiling system. It's the only right way to do it and be confident that no "metal monsters" are waiting to eat your engine from the inside out.

I've done half-assed rebuilds on my own stuff (I would never recommend it to a customer) thinking "If i just get one more year", just to find that my oil pressure is steadily dropping and dropping......

I think that the oil milkshake you had just exacerbated an existing problem that was bound to rear it's ugly head sooner or later. Idling it like you were should really not have killed it so quickly. Bust it down.
 
I just went through the same thing with an engine for my brother Mikel. Tear it down and clean everything, then clean it again. It's the only way to be sure. My brother thought I was nuts, but he will thank me in the long run.

Jack
 
mikelbeck said:
So pretty much what you're saying is that no matter what, I've got to strip this down to the bare block?
Click to expand...

I would. As much bad luck you have had with that motor it would be the best thing to do seems like to me. Since you are going to be drag raceing the car I would build the bottom end up to take that kind of abuse.
 
Yes, yes, you're all right. I'm just having a hard time accepting it, cuz as we all know I'm cheap.

But anyway... I took the oil filter to a local, well-respected engine builder (he was at the track with us when we first heard the noise) who had a look. He said based on what he sees there is some bearing material in it, but not what he expected. He thinks that the previous filter had all the metal in it. This filter was only on for a day before I went to the track.

He told me to pull the motor out, pull off the pan if I wanted to see the mess for myself, and then bring it to him. He said he'd take it all apart (down to the block), clean everything, take the crank to his guy and have it cut or cleaned up, recondition or replace the rods as necessary and put it all back together for much less than I expected. And spending less money makes me happy. ;-)
 
Ok... engine guy has the motor and started pulling it apart.

#1 rod is in a really cool "S" shape. It's not supposed to be like that, right? ;-)

The piston is bashed up, the cylinder has a decent sized gouge about halfway down. So the piston is gonna have to be sleeved, gotta get a new rod and a new piston.

Not good.
 
Look on the bright side.....it could be worse.
PVC.jpg
 
Ouch!

I feel better now, thanks. ;-)
 
Ah, it's getting worse... all of the rod bearings were down to bare metal. The crank is gonna have to be cut another 010 and all the rods need to be resized.

I guess the coolant in the oil ate up the bearings before I was able to clear it all out. From now on I'm running straight water in the motor with nothing else, I'll just completely drain it in the winter instead of putting antifreeze in.

:-(
 
antifreez is also a rust inhibitor and it also helps cool changes boiling point of fluid it is not good to run straight water no lubrication for seals etc. you need to run coolant no matter what
 
I won't say you have to run anti-freeze no matter what, its your bucks and your engine.

But Anti-freeze also has other additives that conditions the cooling water so it does not become to acidic thus preventing your engine from being oxidized from the inside out. Its even more important when you have aluminum parts such as water pumps and heads bolted to cast iron blocks. Just my 2 cents on the pros and cons of anti-freeze 8)
 
I usually use Water Wetter, which "can be used to provide rust and corrosion protection in plain water for racing engines".
 
Not sure about the tracks you run at, but most will not pass you through tech with anything other than straight water. Antifreeze is slippery, and it don't dry up too quick.
 
C130 Chief said:
Not sure about the tracks you run at, but most will not pass you through tech with anything other than straight water. Antifreeze is slippery, and it don't dry up too quick.
Click to expand...

None of the tracks I've ever gone to has checked to see what color my coolant is, but they don't allow antifreeze. I run water during the warmer months and then in the winter I drain the water and put in antifreeze, then run the motor for a little while to get it to circulate. Then I leave it in the garage until it's warm again.

But I'm not doing that anymore... When it starts getting cold out I'll drain the radiator and the block and leave it in the garage dry.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top