Engine machinist recommendations for master rebuild kit

[TimJ72Duster]

Just heard back from the engine machinist for my 1971 340. It needed bored .030. He gave me a quote for parts, a whole master rebuild kit actually. $1000 for everything. Erson (or he said I could do a Howard’s cam) camshaft, sealed power pistons and lifters (HT-211), all the gaskets/seals/bearings, rings (not sure on the make), timing set, oil pump, etc. I know very little about the specs and what’s better/worse.

I did ask about other people he had order those parts and he’s heard a majority of people say that they love the kit. Especially in terms of reliability and street performance. Would any of you guys recommend Erson or Howard over the other? Price seem too high? Etc.? Let me know. Thanks

 

[CFD244]

If it were me, I would want to know the specifics (manufacturers, part numbers etc.) on the parts in the kit. Some are better than others.

 

[dano]

This depends a lot on what the intended use of the engine is? HP goal? Are the pistons the 71-down above deck or 72/73 low compression? On the cam, both brands are known but again the grind will depend on the use. What heads? Mismatched parts will make any engine a dog.

 

[middleagecrisis]

Did your machinist ask:
- What your goals were for your rebuilt engine? E.g. stock or lopey idle, octane you plan to run, desired powerband, etc?
- Standard transmission or automatic (desired stall converter)?
- Rearend gear ratio?
If he didn't ask, or you didn't tell him, you'll most likely get a stock type rebuild. If you want an informed answer, answer the above and list out the parts he recommended. I wouldn't go back and start questioning the machine shop decisions unless you have a solid "want" list and the provided parts don't meet that need. Nobody likes to play 21 questions, when a few well thought out ones are all that's needed.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

Did your machinist ask:
- What your goals were for your rebuilt engine? E.g. stock or lopey idle, octane you plan to run, desired powerband, etc?
- Standard transmission or automatic (desired stall converter)?
- Rearend gear ratio?
If he didn't ask, or you didn't tell him, you'll most likely get a stock type rebuild. If you want an informed answer, answer the above and list out the parts he recommended. I wouldn't go back and start questioning the machine shop decisions unless you have a solid "want" list and the provided parts don't meet that need. Nobody likes to play 21 questions, when a few well thought out ones are all that's needed.

He knows that I want a near stock build, just a little more torque. I don’t want to do a stall anything. I want to run basic fuel so 87/89. I didn’t tell him about rear end or trans, I have a 8 3/4 and 727.

 

[1MeanA]

Just because he is a machinist it doesn't mean he is knowledgeable about selecting components. I'm guess he is picking stuff he has used before on stock rebuilds. Assuming he understands your needs you can either put your trust in him or educate yourself in which case you will have to get a lot more info about the parts specifically the cam and piston selections.

 

[middleagecrisis]

My .02 worth. If you put a list of parts he picked in this thread, you'll have a hundred different recommendations about different parts to use. Don't take this wrong, or derogatory, but you don't sound like you have years of technical knowledge, maybe just getting into the sport? If you trust the shop and have heard good things, then you can go with the recommendations provided by your machinist. You can also post up the shop name and see if anyone here has any recent experience/dealings and get they're feedback. $1000 was the rebuild kit, how much to machine and I assume assemble the longblock?

 

[TimJ72Duster]

My .02 worth. If you put a list of parts he picked in this thread, you'll have a hundred different recommendations about different parts to use. Don't take this wrong, or derogatory, but you don't sound like you have years of technical knowledge, maybe just getting into the sport? If you trust the shop and have heard good things, then you can go with the recommendations provided by your machinist. You can also post up the shop name and see if anyone here has any recent experience/dealings and get they're feedback. $1000 was the rebuild kit, how much to machine and I assume assemble the longblock?

He’s supposed to be sending me an email of the parts list and part numbers when he’s able. I am absolutely a novice in terms of engine building, so no harm done haha. The shop is Time Automotive Machining in Quincy Illinois. They have great reviews and the guy seems very genuine and honest. The machining and prep and everything is gonna be about $900 all said and done. But I’ll be assembling myself. They had to bore the cylinders .030, polish crank, heads, etc.

 

[ch1ll]

For gaskets, bearings, pistons, rings, cam and lifters, 1k sounds cheap if they are quality name brand parts. Real cost with machining will be alot more, align hone mains, decking block and heads, bore and hone cylinders, valve guides and valve job.

Keep in mind, most general machine shops rebuilding a 100 ls engines to one mopar unless you use a mopar specific shop.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

For gaskets, bearings, pistons, rings, cam and lifters, 1k sounds cheap if they are quality name brand parts. Real cost with machining will be alot more, align hone mains, decking block and heads, bore and hone cylinders, valve guides and valve job.

Keep in mind, most general machine shops rebuilding a 100 ls engines to one mopar unless you use a mopar specific shop.

The machine work is gonna be about $900. That was the original quote anyways. He actually didn’t have a ton more of LS engines. He had a lot of everything haha.

 

[496 polara]

Post the parts list here and you will get honest feedback.
Make us a list of everything you will be reusing as well as your gear ratio,etc.

 

[496 polara]

Will the heads be stock? What intake? Headers or manifolds? Gear ratio? Etc.

 

[ch1ll]

Your best off having the machine shop assemble AND break in the engine especially if your a novice. I'm not a novice and I have my engines built for me. They have experience I'll never have.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

Will the heads be stock? What intake? Headers or manifolds? Gear ratio? Etc.

Stock heads. Edelbrock intake (might as well be stock specs) and manifolds. Not sure on gears, I haven’t scrubbed the pumpkin yet.

 

[middleagecrisis]

Your best off having the machine shop assemble AND break in the engine especially if your a novice. I'm not a novice and I have my engines built for me. They have experience I'll never have.

You can do the rebuild yourself IF you follow a good set of instructions and triple check all your clearances, end play, ring gap, etc. The initial start up and break-in is where it's easy to void the warranty, especially if the cam goes flat. I highly recommend ch1ll above advice since you are a novice, unless you can get a buddy who knows Mopars, or someone knowledgeable and local from this board to take you under their wing from build-up to break-in. I'm all for doing it yourself, but the rate of failures people seem to having with hydraulic flat tappet cams, I wouldn't want to see that happen to your freshly built engine. Do they even offer a break-in service?

 

[crazydog]

I did a AMC 401 fifteen plus years ago. I had the machine shop assemble the long block and I bolted on the rest. It was my first engine. This was not long after all the flat tappet cams started going nuts and I was unsure about the initial start and cam break in. I found a engine builder that had a dyno and what was needed to attach a AMC. It was about six hours away. Drove there on Friday, got the engine hooked up and did the break in that evening. Went back on Saturday and did some tuning. It was a really cool experience for someone that had only seen that stuff on TV. It cost some money, but I had the piece of mind knowing that the guys knew what they were doing and making sure all went well.

 

[ch1ll]

You did the right thing with the 401. Those are found far and in-between.

 

[dogbreath]

$1900 for parts and labor to rebuild a 340 is very reasonable.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I wouldn't get a "kit". They always cut corners using cheap parts to maximize profit. Also, 1000 "for everything" is way too cheap to be quality parts. Erson Cams? I was unaware they were still in business.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

You can do the rebuild yourself IF you follow a good set of instructions and triple check all your clearances, end play, ring gap, etc. The initial start up and break-in is where it's easy to void the warranty, especially if the cam goes flat. I highly recommend ch1ll above advice since you are a novice, unless you can get a buddy who knows Mopars, or someone knowledgeable and local from this board to take you under their wing from build-up to break-in. I'm all for doing it yourself, but the rate of failures people seem to having with hydraulic flat tappet cams, I wouldn't want to see that happen to your freshly built engine. Do they even offer a break-in service?

I doubt they offer a break in service, but I’ll ask when I talk to them next. My father has rebuilt a bunch of engines and is the reason Im not having the shop do it. He hasn’t done a mopar in a long time.

 

[middleagecrisis]

I doubt they offer a break in service, but I’ll ask when I talk to them next. My father has rebuilt a bunch of engines and is the reason Im not having the shop do it. He hasn’t done a mopar in a long time.

Sounds like a good time for you and your father. He’s also probably familiar with the process to break in a hydraulic camshaft. If not, there’s lots of information on this forum about doing that process. Be sure to check that the lifters rotate in their bores as the engine is turning over. That’s a big part of the problem with the cam failures that people don’t check. I never did until it was pointed out here. Keep us informed of your progress.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

Just an update for everyone. The machinist sent me all the parts and part numbers. The prices under the parts is what I could find online if I were to order them. But he said he would be able to get it for $1000. Looks like I’d save about $200 if he ordered them. Looks like the cam will be perfect for what is intended with the car. You guys think I will be able to keep my ~10.5:1 compression?


KIT21900MK (no idea what this is, google didn’t pull anything up)

CHRYS 340 1968-73



2M694.030

HASTINGS 8-CYL RING SET

$100



CR805SI

KING ROD BEARINGS

MB558SI MAIN BEARINGS

$23



SLP

260-1121

GASKET SET

$100



DURABOND

PD16 CAM BEARINGS

$35



MELLING

M72 OIL PUMP

$60



SLP

HT2011 HYDRAULIC LIFTERS

$90



PBM

T3028 TIMING SET

$40



PIO

PE113R PLUG KIT

$12



SLP

428P30 PISTONS

$430-500



MIC

2800B5 ASSEMBLY LUBE



ERSON

e421011 M/P1 CAMSHAFT

$300


Shop - Prod - AQH64P6DPH7Q9T45_PRD

 

[1MeanA]

Erson describes that camshaft as 'Good idle and fuel efficiency. Excellent replacement camshaft for cars or trucks with campers, towing moderate loads. May be used with small displacement centrifugal, vane or rootstype superchargers. Computer compatible'.

https://motorsportsunlimited.com/content/2018QuickLookCatalog.pdf

It looks to have a less duration than a stock 340 cam.

 

[TimJ72Duster]

Erson describes that camshaft as 'Good idle and fuel efficiency. Excellent replacement camshaft for cars or trucks with campers, towing moderate loads. May be used with small displacement centrifugal, vane or rootstype superchargers. Computer compatible'.

http://[URL]https://motorsportsunlimited.com/content/2018QuickLookCatalog.pdf

[/URL]

It looks to have a less duration than a stock 340 cam.

Yes, I found the catalog as well. I was also looking at the e420322. I’m curious how much power it would add and what the drop in fuel efficiency would be.

 

[1MeanA]

Yes, I found the catalog as well. I was also looking at the e420322. I’m curious how much power it would add and what the drop in fuel efficiency would be.

You're going to have to figure out what you want...max power, fuel efficiency, replicate a stock '71 340, etc. Most people don't step down in cams so its either a stock like cam or one step up assuming no other engine or powertrain upgrades. The e420322 might be ok but will obviously be pushing the limit for a stock car with 9:1 compression (approx). I'm sure others will chime in with recommendations for a stock 340. Perhaps there are better grinds out there and there lots of cam threads here. I just built a stockish 340 with an Oregon Cams '68 340 4 speed replica cam. It is torquey and sounds nice cruising. Based on the first 100 miles I doubt the fuel economy is any good but I don't expect any of them will be great. It idles a little too smooth for my liking and vacuum is on the low side. If I had to pick another cam and wanted to keep the cost down I might go back to Oregon Cams and get a recommendation from them. I expect the specs wouldn't be far off the e420322.