Engine Serial Number Decode and Crankcase Ventilation

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ToofLife

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My 1962 Dodge Lancer project has begun....doing all the little things necessary to fire up and drive a car that has been sitting quietly for many years...waiting for me to love it.

My first question is regarding the engine serial number. The guy I bought the car from said it originally had a 170 cid, but was replaced with a 225 cid. I don't know where, when, or from what this second engine came. There was no air cleaner at all..he said it was stolen. I've poured through endless posts and search pages trying to find a definitive reference for deciphering the serial number code. It's a bit confusing. The serial number is 6225 R 2326. From what I've read, I'm sure it's a 225. I'm thinking it might be a 1976 engine, but the date code at the end makes no sense to me.
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The other issue that has me baffled is the crankcase ventilation system. I'll assume I need a breather with a hose connection to go to the crankcase breather inlet. I see the vent line from the fuel line which returns to the carb. As I understand it, the hose from the PCV valve should return air to the intake manifold. I see no provision at all on the manifold or the carb for such a hose. Would it have gone back into the air breather to be filtered before being sucked back down the carb? I would think that the wet oily air would gum up the air filter and the carb. Would an engine from 1962 even have a PCV return system, or would the hose just trail under the frame as an OCV system?
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I starting to believe I'm going to have to utilize a catch-can filtration apparatus so I can return the air back into the air cleaner without making a mess.

This is my first ever post requesting help. I'm prepared to be dazzled.
 
225 - 225 CID

R - Regular fuel recommended.

What is the casting date on the block?
 
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One hose connects the PCV valve in the front part of the valve cover to intake manifold vacuum. There is usually a large nipple on the carburetor throttle plate for this. This sucks oil/fumes into the intake manifold to be burned. The breather at the rear of the valve cover gets connected to a hose which draws clean air from inside the air cleaner.
2011-01-21_200026_pcv_valve.gif
 
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The serial number is 6225 R 2326.

No, it's 6225 R 2 3 26. The spacing matters.

6: 1976-model engine.
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel/Passenger car engine
2 3 26: Fun with inconsistent date and line codes. Could mean the 26th engine assembled on February 3, 1976. Could mean line № 2, engine built on March 26th.

Of note, there is no "E" in your engine's stamping. That means it was made before the change to cast crankshafts in Slant-6 engines, which happened before the end of 1976-model production.

Note that if your Lancer has an automatic transmission, you need the 1/8" spacer ring to take up the gap between the early ('67-down) small torque converter nose and the late ('68-up) large crankshaft counterbore. Everything will bolt up without the spacer, but transmission front pump bushing and seal wear will be rapid. This spacer is frequently left out because people don't know it has to be there and everything seems to go together OK.

The other issue that has me baffled is the crankcase ventilation system. I'll assume I need a breather with a hose connection to go to the crankcase breather inlet.

First, use the right words. The breather is on your valve cover. The air cleaner sits atop the carburetor. You don't actually need an air cleaner with a fitting for a hose to run to the breather. You can leave the breather's port open to the atmosphere -- that's how it was done originally on your '62, and on all engines until '64 (California) '68 (50-state/Canada). However, if you wish to duct the crankcase breather to the air cleaner, and you're running a 1-barrel carburetor and want an original-looking air cleaner, then the one to seek is a '64-'69 item, 11" diameter, no snorkel, and with the breather hose nipple.

The valve cover on your engine is a '70-'80 item, apparently chromed. That's fine. Whether or not you duct the breather to the air cleaner, the PCV valve gets a hose that runs to your carburetor's PCV port.

I see the vent line from the fuel line which returns to the carb.

There should be no such connection. In your engine bay I see only the lines that were meant to be there: the fuel line from the fuel pump (upgrade this with the Fuel line mod), the PCV valve just discussed, the vacuum advance hose that will connect the carburetor to the distributor, and the vacuum feed for the heater/defogger, which attaches to a vacuum nipple screwed into the rearmost intake manifold runner.

As I understand it, the hose from the PCV valve should return air to the intake manifold. I see no provision at all on the manifold or the carb for such a hose.

Please show us your carburetor from several angles.

Would it have gone back into the air breather to be filtered before being sucked back down the carb?

No.

Would an engine from 1962 even have a PCV

In California and New York, mandatorily yes. Everywhere else, optionally. Standard equipment outside CA and NY was a road draft tube extending from the valve cover to under the car. However, Slant-6 road draft tubes are compatible only with '60-'65 valve covers.

I starting to believe I'm going to have to utilize a catch-can filtration apparatus so I can return the air back into the air cleaner without making a mess.

This will not work.
 
No, it's 6225 R 2 3 26. The spacing matters.

6: 1976-model engine.
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel/Passenger car engine
2 3 26: Fun with inconsistent date and line codes. Could mean the 26th engine assembled on February 3, 1976. Could mean line № 2, engine built on March 26th.

Of note, there is no "E" in your engine's stamping. That means it was made before the change to cast crankshafts in Slant-6 engines, which happened before the end of 1976-model production.

Note that if your Lancer has an automatic transmission, you need the 1/8" spacer ring to take up the gap between the early ('67-down) small torque converter nose and the late ('68-up) large crankshaft counterbore. Everything will bolt up without the spacer, but transmission front pump bushing and seal wear will be rapid. This spacer is frequently left out because people don't know it has to be there and everything seems to go together OK.



First, use the right words. The breather is on your valve cover. The air cleaner sits atop the carburetor. You don't actually need an air cleaner with a fitting for a hose to run to the breather. You can leave the breather's port open to the atmosphere -- that's how it was done originally on your '62, and on all engines until '64 (California) '68 (50-state/Canada). However, if you wish to duct the crankcase breather to the air cleaner, and you're running a 1-barrel carburetor and want an original-looking air cleaner, then the one to seek is a '64-'69 item, 11" diameter, no snorkel, and with the breather hose nipple.

The valve cover on your engine is a '70-'80 item, apparently chromed. That's fine. Whether or not you duct the breather to the air cleaner, the PCV valve gets a hose that runs to your carburetor's PCV port.



There should be no such connection. In your engine bay I see only the lines that were meant to be there: the fuel line from the fuel pump (upgrade this with the Fuel line mod), the PCV valve just discussed, the vacuum advance hose that will connect the carburetor to the distributor, and the vacuum feed for the heater/defogger, which attaches to a vacuum nipple screwed into the rearmost intake manifold runner.



Please show us your carburetor from several angles.



No.



In California and New York, mandatorily yes. Everywhere else, optionally. Standard equipment outside CA and NY was a road draft tube extending from the valve cover to under the car. However, Slant-6 road draft tubes are compatible only with '60-'65 valve covers.



This will not work.
Thank you. Dazzling indeed. Lesson learned.
 
No, it's 6225 R 2 3 26. The spacing matters.

6: 1976-model engine.
225: Displacement
R: Regular-fuel/Passenger car engine
2 3 26: Fun with inconsistent date and line codes. Could mean the 26th engine assembled on February 3, 1976. Could mean line № 2, engine built on March 26th.

Of note, there is no "E" in your engine's stamping. That means it was made before the change to cast crankshafts in Slant-6 engines, which happened before the end of 1976-model production.

Note that if your Lancer has an automatic transmission, you need the 1/8" spacer ring to take up the gap between the early ('67-down) small torque converter nose and the late ('68-up) large crankshaft counterbore. Everything will bolt up without the spacer, but transmission front pump bushing and seal wear will be rapid. This spacer is frequently left out because people don't know it has to be there and everything seems to go together OK.



First, use the right words. The breather is on your valve cover. The air cleaner sits atop the carburetor. You don't actually need an air cleaner with a fitting for a hose to run to the breather. You can leave the breather's port open to the atmosphere -- that's how it was done originally on your '62, and on all engines until '64 (California) '68 (50-state/Canada). However, if you wish to duct the crankcase breather to the air cleaner, and you're running a 1-barrel carburetor and want an original-looking air cleaner, then the one to seek is a '64-'69 item, 11" diameter, no snorkel, and with the breather hose nipple.

The valve cover on your engine is a '70-'80 item, apparently chromed. That's fine. Whether or not you duct the breather to the air cleaner, the PCV valve gets a hose that runs to your carburetor's PCV port.



There should be no such connection. In your engine bay I see only the lines that were meant to be there: the fuel line from the fuel pump (upgrade this with the Fuel line mod), the PCV valve just discussed, the vacuum advance hose that will connect the carburetor to the distributor, and the vacuum feed for the heater/defogger, which attaches to a vacuum nipple screwed into the rearmost intake manifold runner.



Please show us your carburetor from several angles.



No.



In California and New York, mandatorily yes. Everywhere else, optionally. Standard equipment outside CA and NY was a road draft tube extending from the valve cover to under the car. However, Slant-6 road draft tubes are compatible only with '60-'65 valve covers.



This will not work.
Here's the carb that I took off the engine.

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It had no air cleaner and was not attached to the PCV valve in any way. Do you think that although the engine in the car is different than the original (1976 vs 1962) and larger (225 vs 170), that this might be the original carb from the 1962 170 cid? That carb wouldn't have had a PCV port right? Should I be looking for a carb that is appropriate for the 1976 engine and the newer emissions feature? A newer single barrel carb would have the port I need...correct?
 
These are images of a carburetor configured for use on a car without PCV. It is a Carter BBS 3287s or 3237s (I can't see the stamping on that little silver aluminum tag clearly enough to tell which). Probably 3287s, which was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 170 engine equipped for fleet service (not quite as small and lean as taxi-spec carbs, but close). The 3237s was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 225 engine and stick shift. Either of these carbs bolts right onto any Slant-6 1bbl intake manifold, and any Slant-6 manifold goes onto any Slant-6 engine, so it's not surprising to have found this carb on the later engine. The difficult bit is that these cars (Slant-6 A-bodies through '66, except '65-'66 with factory A/C) have a rotating-rod throttle linkage that requires a carburetor with the throttle lever configured as shown in these pictures: a U-shaped bracket holding a rubber bushing that accepts the hooked end of the rotating rod. Starting in '67 ('65 on factory A/C cars) a cable-type throttle linkage was used, which requires a different type of carburetor throttle lever. Some carbs have throttle levers configured to accept both, but even those are growing difficult to find.

The 3287s is, as I say, a small carburetor set up for fuel economy. It'll run a 225; I had one on my '65 for awhile a couple decades ago. That car had PCV, and I modified the carb to accept it. This required carefully drilling two holes in exactly the right places. It worked fine.

As for what you should do: that depends on your goals for this build. Are you wanting to stick with a 1bbl carburetor? Go to a 2bbl? Something else?
 
These are images of a carburetor configured for use on a car without PCV. It is a Carter BBS 3287s or 3237s (I can't see the stamping on that little silver aluminum tag clearly enough to tell which). Probably 3287s, which was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 170 engine equipped for fleet service (not quite as small and lean as taxi-spec carbs, but close). The 3237s was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 225 engine and stick shift. Either of these carbs bolts right onto any Slant-6 1bbl intake manifold, and any Slant-6 manifold goes onto any Slant-6 engine, so it's not surprising to have found this carb on the later engine. The difficult bit is that these cars (Slant-6 A-bodies through '66, except '65-'66 with factory A/C) have a rotating-rod throttle linkage that requires a carburetor with the throttle lever configured as shown in these pictures: a U-shaped bracket holding a rubber bushing that accepts the hooked end of the rotating rod. Starting in '67 ('65 on factory A/C cars) a cable-type throttle linkage was used, which requires a different type of carburetor throttle lever. Some carbs have throttle levers configured to accept both, but even those are growing difficult to find.

The 3287s is, as I say, a small carburetor set up for fuel economy. It'll run a 225; I had one on my '65 for awhile a couple decades ago. That car had PCV, and I modified the carb to accept it. This required carefully drilling two holes in exactly the right places. It worked fine.

As for what you should do: that depends on your goals for this build. Are you wanting to stick with a 1bbl carburetor? Go to a 2bbl? Something else?
The number on the tag is 3230S. Ultimately, I'll probably end up replacing the intake and exhaust with
These are images of a carburetor configured for use on a car without PCV. It is a Carter BBS 3287s or 3237s (I can't see the stamping on that little silver aluminum tag clearly enough to tell which). Probably 3287s, which was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 170 engine equipped for fleet service (not quite as small and lean as taxi-spec carbs, but close). The 3237s was original equipment on 1962 A-bodies with 225 engine and stick shift. Either of these carbs bolts right onto any Slant-6 1bbl intake manifold, and any Slant-6 manifold goes onto any Slant-6 engine, so it's not surprising to have found this carb on the later engine. The difficult bit is that these cars (Slant-6 A-bodies through '66, except '65-'66 with factory A/C) have a rotating-rod throttle linkage that requires a carburetor with the throttle lever configured as shown in these pictures: a U-shaped bracket holding a rubber bushing that accepts the hooked end of the rotating rod. Starting in '67 ('65 on factory A/C cars) a cable-type throttle linkage was used, which requires a different type of carburetor throttle lever. Some carbs have throttle levers configured to accept both, but even those are growing difficult to find.

The 3287s is, as I say, a small carburetor set up for fuel economy. It'll run a 225; I had one on my '65 for awhile a couple decades ago. That car had PCV, and I modified the carb to accept it. This required carefully drilling two holes in exactly the right places. It worked fine.

As for what you should do: that depends on your goals for this build. Are you wanting to stick with a 1bbl carburetor? Go to a 2bbl? Something else?
Number on the tag is 3230S....not easy to read in person either. Ultimately, I'll rebuild the engine and replace the intake/exhaust with some of Jack Clifford's spicy stuff. For now, I've got a few other unrelated projects going on and would just drive this car around for awhile before official disassembly and restoration. How hard do you think it would be to find a 2 barrel that would accept the rotating rod style throttle linkage?
 
The number on the tag is 3230S

1962 170/automatic, non-taxi, non-fleet, without PCV. Not quite as lean as fleet, but still small.


Ultimately, I'll probably end up replacing the intake and exhaust with
some of Jack Clifford's spicy stuff

Or not. Be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.

How hard do you think it would be to find a 2 barrel that would accept the rotating rod style throttle linkage?

No such carb exists; you'd have to make one by modifying a cable-type 2bbl (and modifying an intake as described in See the parallel 2bbl setup article. Photo documentation of a very well done such conversion is here (if that link still works).

Or you could swap in a cable-type accelerator...
 
1962 170/automatic, non-taxi, non-fleet, without PCV. Not quite as lean as fleet, but still small.




Or not. Be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.



No such carb exists; you'd have to make one by modifying a cable-type 2bbl (and modifying an intake as described in See the parallel 2bbl setup article. Photo documentation of a very well done such conversion is here (if that link still works).

Or you could swap in a cable-type accelerator...
I appreciate all the knowledge and insight you've shared...not to mention the time spent. I think I want to keep this carb situation as simple as possible. The 2 barrel and manifold mod is very interesting, but more effort than I want to put in since I'll eventually upgrade. BTW, thanks for the heads up on Clifford. I have read reviews and comments to that effect, but wasn't sure what to make of it. Any change to a two barrel is naturally gonna require another manifold as well. I'm interested in modifying this little one barrel to accept the PCV connection, fire it up, and call it a day. Do you think you could guide me through that? I'm a dentist by trade, so careful detailed work is kinda my thing. I just lack the specific plan in this case.
 
I appreciate all the knowledge and insight you've shared...not to mention the time spent.

Glad to help out.

interested in modifying this little one barrel to accept the PCV connection, fire it up, and call it a day. Do you think you could guide me through that? I'm a dentist by trade, so careful detailed work is kinda my thing.

Well, then yeah, you'll have no trouble with precision drilling! Compared to toothwork, this'll be a cinch. Here's what to do:

Fetch one of these. Neatly cut off the flare—just the flare, taking away only minimal tube (a little tubing cutter is best, but do what you must) and remove the flare nut. Now you have a nice little elbow with a hose retention bulge at one end.

Obtain a correct carburetor base gasket. You will note there's a 1/4" hole in it adjacent to the outboard carb mounting bolt hole, next to the throttle bore. You'll find a matching 1/4" hole in the carb mounting pad on the intake manifold. Temporarily attach the gasket in its correct orientation to the bottom of the throttle body. There will be solid aluminum (throttle body) visible through that 1/4" hole. You will be drilling here.

Look at the left front corner of the throttle body, facing just about exactly the same direction as that aluminum carb ID tag. You'll find an arch-shaped boss. You will be drilling that boss to accept the straight (no bulge) end of the elbow, aiming for a fit that can readily be sealed with a smear of JB Weld or similar on the shank of the elbow before its insertion.

The trick here is to make these two new holes intersect neatly, without leaving an obstruction, and (this is the don't-or-die part) without breaking through into the throttle bore or the top surface of the throttle body.

Clean out the chips thoroughly—this shouldn't be an issue as you'll surely be cleaning and rebuilding the entire carburetor since you've already taken it off and apart. Install the elbow so it exits the throttle body and makes a turn toward the passenger side of the car.

Once the JB-Weld has cured, install the cleaned and built-up carb. Use oilproof hose (crankcase vent hose or fuel line hose) to connect the PCV valve to the new fitting on the carburetor. Use a hose clamp if necessary for secure retention.

While you're at it, never a bad time to do the fuel line mod.
 
It may also be worth noting that you can run any engine without PCV. Just plug the hole where the PCV valve is, and put a good breather in the hole where the old breather is. It'll run fine, and you did say that this is quite temporary. As long as you don't do lots of short trips where the condensation doesn't burn off, you'll be fine.
 
Poor idea to run without PCV, if for no other reason than you'll have to constantly deal with the wretched stink of crankcase fumes wherever and whenever you drive. The firewalls of these cars are full of paths for underhood air (and fumes) to sail into the passenger compartment, and even if the firewall itself were to be magically sealed up, the hood-to-cowl seal isn't anywhere near complete; you'd still have crankcase fumes flying right into the car via the cowl air intake.

Job worth doing = job worth doing right.
 
'62s did not have PCV in most states. Nobody ever died from the "fumes" back in the day. Besides, if the motor is in good shape, there will be barely any fumes at all.
 
'62s without PCV didn't have the setup you advocate, they had road draft tubes that routed the crankcase fumes under the car. And yes, even an engine in good shape is going to produce crankcase fumes.

I don't think "Just halfass it" is good advice in any circumstances, but if the original poster wants a quick 'n' dirty get-by fix, oilproof hose can be run from the crankcase breather nipple down to under the car, the PCV valve can be plugged off, and the sealed oil cap can be replaced by an open breather cap (PCV or no PCV, the crankcase needs an air inlet and an air outlet—your "just leave the breather open and call it good" idea lacks an air inlet),
 
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I can find 1000s of pictures of motors, and have seen actual running motors in cars at all the cruise nights & car shows I attend that have no PCV, and no road draft tubes. How is this possible? Are they all idiots? Did you ever see all the GM cars with just one breather in the intake manifold which just goes into the lifter valley? Oh yeah, Hemis too! Even a Keith Black hemi with those great looking breathers on the valve covers! No PCV there. Are you telling me all these motors are headed toward self-destruction?
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I suppose
Ray Barton doesn't know what hes doing either?
hrdp_9809_01_o%2B451_mopar_stroker_engine_build%2Bcomplete_engine.jpg

And neither does Roush?
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I can find 1000s of pictures of motors, and have seen actual running motors in cars at all the cruise nights & car shows I attend that have no PCV, and no road draft tubes. How is this possible?

This isn't difficult to comprehend. People see all kinds of things they think they understand but don't. People see things incompletely and think they've seen them completely (like those "GM cars with just one breather in the intake manifold" you think you saw). And not only that, but people do all kinds of things, too. Some of them are wise, some aren't. Sometimes people do unwise things because they don't understand what they're doing, or they misunderstand what they think they're doing, or they understand fully well but dammit, they're gonna be a REBEL and do what they want. Some of the unwise things people do don't lead to fireballs and rivers of tears, they just make stuff work not as well as it would if done another way.

I think the original poster probably has enough information to do as he chooses on his car.
 
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Glad to help out.



Well, then yeah, you'll have no trouble with precision drilling! Compared to toothwork, this'll be a cinch. Here's what to do:

Fetch one of these. Neatly cut off the flare—just the flare, taking away only minimal tube (a little tubing cutter is best, but do what you must) and remove the flare nut. Now you have a nice little elbow with a hose retention bulge at one end.

Obtain a correct carburetor base gasket. You will note there's a 1/4" hole in it adjacent to the outboard carb mounting bolt hole, next to the throttle bore. You'll find a matching 1/4" hole in the carb mounting pad on the intake manifold. Temporarily attach the gasket in its correct orientation to the bottom of the throttle body. There will be solid aluminum (throttle body) visible through that 1/4" hole. You will be drilling here.

Look at the left front corner of the throttle body, facing just about exactly the same direction as that aluminum carb ID tag. You'll find an arch-shaped boss. You will be drilling that boss to accept the straight (no bulge) end of the elbow, aiming for a fit that can readily be sealed with a smear of JB Weld or similar on the shank of the elbow before its insertion.

The trick here is to make these two new holes intersect neatly, without leaving an obstruction, and (this is the don't-or-die part) without breaking through into the throttle bore or the top surface of the throttle body.

Clean out the chips thoroughly—this shouldn't be an issue as you'll surely be cleaning and rebuilding the entire carburetor since you've already taken it off and apart. Install the elbow so it exits the throttle body and makes a turn toward the passenger side of the car.

Once the JB-Weld has cured, install the cleaned and built-up carb. Use oilproof hose (crankcase vent hose or fuel line hose) to connect the PCV valve to the new fitting on the carburetor. Use a hose clamp if necessary for secure retention.

While you're at it, never a bad time to do the fuel line mod.
Thanks again for your guidance. I immediately grabbed the carb to verify the landmarks and lo and behold, there is already a blind hole in the throttle body from the bottom in that location. Just a connecting lateral hole and we're in business. Certainly much easier than new carb/manifold and throttle linkage swap....
image.jpeg



Thanks for the fuel line mod tip too. That makes a lot of sense to me.
 
Sweet! That makes the retrofit much easier.

Oh, one other thing: the 170 wants a PCV valve calibrated differently from the larger Chrysler engines, including the bigger Slant-6s. Use a Chrysler part № 4315 405.
 
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Sweet! That makes the retrofit much easier.

Oh, one other thing: the 170 wants a PCV valve calibrated differently from the larger Chrysler engines, including the bigger Slant-6s. Use a Chrysler part № 4315 405.
Hi Dan. Was reading the Engine Serial Number Decode and Crankcase Ventilation thread....I have my stock 170 and am looking to convert to a PCV from the draft tube...I have changed out the base of the carb so I have a PCV port. Can you tell me what PCV I need...I think the older engines are different. Thanks.
Jason


zpfile002.jpg
 
Read this for info on converting from draft tube to PCV (valve calibration is different for 170 vs. 225, not for earlier/later), and this post for what to do about the poor-quality chrome valve-cover-shaped trinket (it matters to the subject at hand).
 
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