Exhaust vs power-steering

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Most Impressive Buschi, you have certainly done your research here!

I was really asking out of curiosity, If I go for a HEMI swap, I'll probably stick to an automatic, either the 727 I currently have, or a complete package with a modern overdrive transmission.

On one hand, I do prefer manual transmissions, but on the other hand, my car is originaly an auto trans car with the original floorshifter and console which I'd like to keep.
 
ateam said:
Centerforce, 10.5", and "yes" I'll have it balanced with flywheel. 2,300lb. car, should help-a little.:blah5:
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I have the centerforce pressure plate too but I mean the disk. Has to fit the splines of the R154 input shaft. I'm wondering that there is only vendor on the market who makes them with 10.5" OD
 
Are you using the Center Force Pressure Plate with all the weights on it? I have used that in two hemi swaps and both times the cars have had bad vibrations. I had the the flywheel and pressure plate checked and the pressure plate was out 50 g and the flywheel was out .5 g .The machine shop said that they couldnt balance it and that is why they stop selling them. Changed the pressure plate to a HAYS non weighted one and all is good.
I have used them behind big and small blocks in the past with no problems. I asked the machine shop that and he thought that the hemi's rotating assembly is much lighter then the old motors and made it more sensitive to the out of balance.
 
Buschi340 said:
I have the centerforce pressure plate too but I mean the disk. Has to fit the splines of the R154 input shaft. I'm wondering that there is only vendor on the market who makes them with 10.5" OD
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> I'll check. I think it was "Kennedy Engineering", Palmdale Ca. "Center Force" is just a generic 10.5", with no "eccentric" weights, but doest have centrifugal weights on fingers. R154 is going in Jensen Healey, with headers unknown ,at this point. ateam:-|
 
Just wanted to bump this thread back up again...

just to recap; I've gathered that none of the stock manifolds or any available headers will clear power steering in a '71 Dart... that seems pretty clear now..

But, does anybody know how much space there would actually be between a new hemi and the power steering box?? What I really need to know is if there is any space at all to work with for fabricating a custom tubing manifold or if this is completely unfeasible??
 
superelbert said:
just wanted to bump this thread back up again...

Just to recap; i've gathered that none of the stock manifolds or any available headers will clear power steering in a '71 dart... That seems pretty clear now..

But, does anybody know how much space there would actually be between a new hemi and the power steering box?? What i really need to know is if there is any space at all to work with for fabricating a custom tubing manifold or if this is completely unfeasible??
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me too!
 
Me three...
I would also like to know how much and where the Hemi exactly intereferes with the powersteering box.

I have a similar swap planned and my daily '73 Dart has power steering and brakes. Not willing to give that up without a good fight!
I got myself a 5.7 Hemi yesterday so I'm looking at options aswell.

I'm willing to go with a power Rack&Pinion-system if needed. I'm also willing to fabricate, even make my own headers, but I'm certainly not looking or able to blow the bank on this.

Those holes in the K-member posted in the other topic don't look too reassuring to me. These small A-bodies aren't the most sturdy built cars out there already (I used to C-bodies) and the factory surely didn't overbuilt them. So just cutting holes and removing metal from an important part of the suspension and chassispart and not reinforcing it in other places is not my idea of improving the handling off a car.

An aftermarket K-member is financially out of the question for me so any solution has to work with the stock K-member.
 
i'm surprised no one has researched an alternative for a power steering box. something smaller. maybe a something in amc or plymouth sapporo/challenger. just sayin'
 
rapidtransitric said:
exactly!!! this is worth some research
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I believe the Cobalt Power steering will need the BCM data supplied by Can Buss. It reqiures VSS, ect for road feel adjustments for different speeds. Also too much load such as parking manouvers with a heavier car will cause elect motor overheat and the assist will stop as this happens on Cobalts already in shopping malls.
 
Uhcoog1 said:
I got my short block back Monday, so I bolted the K member up and snapped some photo's. The power steering box physically fits (doesn't run into head or valve cover), but it doesn't leave a lot of room for exhaust. Looks possible. I posted a bunch of pics on my site here:
http://www.3gduster.com/Hemi-Exhaust-vs-Power-Steering.html
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I like your site. Very cool.

Looks like somebody could get creative and build a custom set of headers to fit around the power steering box. May not be real pretty but Looks do-able.

Thanks for sharing.
C
 
Superelbert said:
Just wanted to bump this thread back up again...

just to recap; I've gathered that none of the stock manifolds or any available headers will clear power steering in a '71 Dart... that seems pretty clear now..
QUOTE]

When I first got my 68 cuda, the PS wasn't working. I filled the reservoir and drove it around CA. Within the very first day, the fluid that I put in leaked out. So I removed the belt and drove it that way for the next 3 yrs. When I finally completely rebuilt the front suspension, I removed the PS pump and extremely slimy heavy cast iron steering box and installed a lighter, more compact factory 16:1 manual box. I finished Friday morning the weekend of the Mopar Nats. I had an appointment to get it aligned and started driving there late morning. In all my excitement of trying to get the front suspension done and the top end of the engine reassembled, I completely forgot about the change-over from PS to 16:1 manual. A few miles down the road, I remembered, "Oh yeah, I have new steering." The change from the 16:1 unassisted PS to the manual 16:1 was completely transparent.

My whole point is, if you want to simulate how your car would drive with manual steering, just remove the PS belt and go for a spin. Keep in mind that the standard MS ratio was 24 or 26: 1. (slow but easy to turn) There is a MP 20:1 gear set available for slightly under $200 that will speed things up but increase the steering effort a little. The PS ratio was 16:1. The 16:1 manual box I put in is an original low mileage piece and there is virtually no slop at all. I also run manual disc brakes w/ a 1-1/32" bore.

And just to rub things in, I let my 105-110 lb 5'-2" FEMALE neighbor drive my car about 10 miles just last Saturday. I wish I had a camera to capture the big S*** Eating Grin she had on her face. She absolutely loved it and had no problem wheeling around.

I don't think anyone has mentioned Unisteer. They make bolt-in R&P coversions for Mopars. About 3-4 years ago, they were looking for an A-body mule car to develop a kit for. Since they are local to me, I seriously considered it but my 16:1 manual works so well, I saw no advantage. I know they DID have an a-body kit but for some reason, it's not on their web site.
http://www.unisteer.com/search_by_product/bolt_in_rack_pinions/mopar/b_body.html
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BigBlockMopar said:
Thanks a bunch for those pics.
It gives me some hope powersteering will be do-able with a 3rd.gen Hemi under the hood.
For sure the exhaust will need to make a very tight turn.

Would it be possible to move the engine over to the pass.side a bit more by altering the motormounts?
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I know some guys have had clearance issues with the passenger fender well with the hemi valve cover bolts. Others seem to have enough room. I don't recall that my mock up was excessively tight between the valve cover and head, but I lost those pics on my last iPhone suicide.

Can anyone else weigh in on how much room there is to move off center to the passenger side?
 
Thanks for the pics, you'll find it easier to get clear pictures if you turn the little knob on the top of the camera to the symbol with the flower. That is the automatic setting for close-up stuff. (Took me about ten years to figure that out, actually my otherwise moronic father-in-law pointed it out.) Also close your garage door when taking picture facing the door. The light flooding in from outside put the subject of your photo in a shadow. If possible you always want what you're photographing to be lighted from the back. Otherwise, your subject ends up being completely shadowed.

I think you've got your work cut out for you. I wish you luck it looks like there is only about an 1-2 inches in some places. Perhaps you could bend your own hydraulic lines. That might pick you some space. Unfortunately it looks like there might be some spots where the body of the power steering box is just so fat that it gets very close to the exhaust port. If you can get the pipe to hug the block you might be able to get it to work.

Best of luck keep up the good work.

It's pics and attempts like this that make this the best site on the internet for Gen III Hemi swaps.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Uhcoog1, Super-thanks for those great pictures!!

These pictures are plain invaluable in advancing my plans for a future HEMI swap!

At least the PS box clears the engine block, thats one major uncertainty out of the way.

I can see why any stock manifolds or aftermarket headers will not clear, but I sort of knew that allready.

From how I am able to interpret the pictures, there is room to put something in there.

This is of course assuming that the power-steering box in my '71 dart is simmilar to the one shown in the pictures.. looks similar though..

I don't see any header type design going in there, but it should be possible to fabricate up some sort of manifold.
Granted, with some of the abrupt turns required to maneuver arround the steering box, it will not be the most efficient design, but if the price is sacrificing a couple of horses, I have absolutely no problem with that! The new HEMI has power in abundance annyway, at least compared to what I could hope to acheive with my current 318 LA.

Sure, a really hot build, or a LA crate engine could perhaps get close, but driveability, fuel economy and all the nother niceties of the new HEMI would be well out of reach. And no re-build or crate engine could beat a decent junkyard HEMI in terms of price.

A good friend just bought a super-trick TIG welder, so if anything can be put between the block and the steering box, we'll be able to make it!

I was just over to the states for a couple of weeks, and I took the oportunity to take out a week of vacation hiring a '11 Challenger RT for a road-trip arround the south-west.

You could say it was just as much for the sake of "test-driving" the HEMI as the road trip! :)

Great car, but it was allmost a bit to civilized for my taste, but If I could have that Engine and gearbox in my Dart... oh lord...

And for manual steering.. my concern is really not driving the car arround, but turning the wheel at a standstill or going really slow.. Unlike the USA, Norway is not a very car friendly country, which translates in to tight car parks etc.. I have tried turning the steering wheel with the engine off, and I must say that my fears about having the collapsible stearing stem axle fail in torsion was genuine and probably not entirely unwarranted.

Again, thanks a lot for clearing away this obstacle of doubt and uncertainty!!
 
Here's a question, how much space would you pick up if you moved the motor to the passenger side. You could notch the inner fender and pick up a bit of space.

It seems to me that you need to pick up between 1" and 2" in order to have any hope of having power steering.

Regards,

Joe Dokes
 
Oh.. moving the negine towards the side??

Wouldn't that cause all sorts off issues like offset transmission and driveshaft??

Doesn't sound like a very tempting proposition to me... :(

Still, I think it should be possible to fabricate a manifold, as far as I can see from the pictures, mainly a question of getting some tubing going to the sides, up and above the steering box. From there on, its just plumbing to get the exhaust down and below the engine.
 
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