Gus Loza
Well-Known Member
my 69 dart was missing the shoulder belts when I bought the car. i have the threaded holes on the headliner. where can i find some original ones? some aftermarket ones have a different style on the ends.
factory dart shoulder belts
- Thread starter Gus Loza
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Lord Sparky
Well-Known Member
Get the three point belts. Safer.
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BWDart
Well-Known Member
Got my 3 point here
Retractable Seat Belts
Retractable Seat Belts
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
BWDart , I agree to a point, however if your car is a hardtop and not a post sedan car, get the ones with the 8" upper sash as shown in my pic, because the belt on a hardtop mounts higher up on the roofline, and not on the door post like the sedans do.
If you have a hardtop and you spec belts without a sash to lower the D ring, then unless your 7 foot tall, the belt will cut across your neck. Hardtops need the sash to lower the seat belt D ring because of the higher mount point in a hardtop.
See pic 2 of a wesco belt mockup with sash in a 67 barracuda shell. The plan is to weld plates up inside the roofline where the coat hooks were, and add the homemade mount brackets for the other belt attach point.
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moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
The upper belt anchor point on a 69 barracuda coupe is where the 67 and early 68 coat hooks were located. You can see in pix of off white primer where anchor point is, and access hole. My 67 has the same access hole. I will enlarge the coat hook holes just enough for a bolt to fit. I have old floor seat belt anchor plates that I cut and modified to fit in the access opening. Once tucked inside they only need 4 rosette welds holding them in place.
I'm going with three point belts in my current 70 Dart project too. In 50 years no one has ever used the fixed belts on my Darts. They are a pain to use and they just sit there in the clips. For safety's sake, don't use 50 year old belts. If you get in a wreck they are brittle and may snap. Just think about how often belts in drag cars have to be replaced to meet NHRA rules. There are a number of places that you can send old belts to get them rewebbed with new material that looks like new factory stuff. My favorite is Sharron's Web, a Mom and Pop business that is always at Carlisle (I think based in Texas?). I gave them my old belts, they disassembled everything, cleaned the chrome, repainted what was painted and rewebbed everything like new. Do you have a pic of you lap belt buckles? I may have some old shoulder belts you can get rewebbed.
Did you 69 have shoulder harnesses to start with? When did they start being standard equipment?
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Jan 1st 1968. Early build 68 cars manufactured before that didnt have them. Some had the anchors in the roof, some didnt.
Ditto for head restraints. Optional until Jan 1st 1969 then were mandatory.
Rear shoulder belts were offered in 1969 on all dodge and plymouth car lines as options. Pretty rare.
Ditto for head restraints. Optional until Jan 1st 1969 then were mandatory.
Rear shoulder belts were offered in 1969 on all dodge and plymouth car lines as options. Pretty rare.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Gus Loza if your doing an exact restoration then spring for having your belts restored with new webbing. You will have to find 69 hardtop belts to send out to be rehabbed. Seatbelt planet can restore them as well.
I am assuming the red dart hardtop in your avatar is the car in question. If not for an exact restoration, then I recommend the wesco belts with drop D ring sash for your car since they are more user friendly and have better ergonomics, and modern retractor mechanisms. The wesco belts are also offered with a chrome lift latch buckle which is similar to the buckle type your 69 would have had.
I am assuming the red dart hardtop in your avatar is the car in question. If not for an exact restoration, then I recommend the wesco belts with drop D ring sash for your car since they are more user friendly and have better ergonomics, and modern retractor mechanisms. The wesco belts are also offered with a chrome lift latch buckle which is similar to the buckle type your 69 would have had.
warrendodge
Well-Known Member
this is very interesting as i am going through this at moment here in new zealand our cars have to be certified if the have any modifcations from stock my car is finished and they want me to weld in anchor points in the roof they all 68 cars had 3point belts my car has no lugs in the roof so must have been an early build could you supply a web site so i can show them this thanks
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
warrendodge You may be able to check the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards for 1968 if archived somewhere. FMVSS at the U.S. DOT. I have no other information except that typically but not necessarily the DOT would make changes and make then effective on the first day of the new year giving vehicle manufacturers time to get ready to comply with whatever the change will be. You may have to verify the date of manufacture of your car as well. It should be easy enough to make and slip in a couple shoulder belt plates like I will do. As long as they are tucked up inside the roof structural web like my pic shows, then 4 steel pop rivets will be enough to hold them there for installing bolts, and they wont pull through in a wreck. Do not scab them over the visible side of the structural web. They wont hold.
Gus Loza
Well-Known Member
yes i wanted the stock look in the interior. i like the idea of the 3 point belts but not sure about the look of it through the window.
Gus Loza
Well-Known Member
not 100% sure but it does have the threaded holes thru the headliner and tge other half of the shoulder belt on the bench seat. also has the retaining clips on the visors
I have factory shoulder belts I removed from 68 cuda if interested? They need restored.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Gus Loza I guess you have to figure out what you want more. Originality or ease of use. There is NO in between. I definitely know what I am talking about on this subject.
I had original shoulder belts in 68 and 69 chargers, a 69 dart, and a 68 barracuda fastback respectively. They were cool for the originality factor, but were absolutely ******* dreadful to use.
For starters with OEM 68-69 belts theres NO recoil mechanism for the shoulder belt. None, nada, zilch. You adjust it for the slack you want, and that's it. Need to reach your ashtray, glovebox or pull forward when you have it set to protect you in a crash, and "lotsa luck chuck". Unbuckle the damn thing, or leave it slack enough to move around, and your unprotected in a crash.
This is unlike a modern car with a passive type restraint that automatically slackens as you move. The OEM is also bolted to the roof structure but because of its design it does not have a D ring sash to lower the belt height, so it will cut into your neck if tensioned properly to keep you in place in the event of a crash. With OEM 68-69 belts, you cannot reach anywhere when this is tensioned up. Also your lap belt has a second buckle receptacle on it to latch your shoulder belt in.
It works like this.
1 you buckle your lap belt, and tighten the belt like an airline seat belt.
2. Unclip the shoulder belt from the clip holder at the sun visor, unsnap the button at the back. Adjust and slide the buckle to put slack on the belt.
3. Buckle shoulder belt into lap belts second receptacle, and the adjust the shoulder belt tension like an airline seat belt.
4. To remove, and stow, do everything reverse of installation.
This is the main reason nobody used these things. They worked in a crash, but were not user friendly at all.
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Aftermarket wesco belts.
1. Grab belt receptacle on shoulder belt pull belt over to buckle end , and buckle up.
(Slack is automatically adjustable, and pendulum inside automatic adjuster locks in a crash)
So base what you want in your car on coolness/originality factor, or user friendliness. Honestly I dont think the belt in the window opening detracts badly. IMHO it kind of modernizes the vehicle a bit. I have had the OEM 2 piece belts before. TBH, the novelty quickly wore off and I found myself just using the lap belt and leaving the shoulder belt stowed all the time.
If given the choice between originality and ease of use, if I had a GTS 383 or 440 dart or something equally rare that rarely gets driven, I'd opt for the OEM belts. If I had something that's not as valuable that actually gets driven, I'd leave them dreadful OEM things in the dumpster, or sell em to a guy doing that 100 point rare car resto, but that's just me.
I had original shoulder belts in 68 and 69 chargers, a 69 dart, and a 68 barracuda fastback respectively. They were cool for the originality factor, but were absolutely ******* dreadful to use.
For starters with OEM 68-69 belts theres NO recoil mechanism for the shoulder belt. None, nada, zilch. You adjust it for the slack you want, and that's it. Need to reach your ashtray, glovebox or pull forward when you have it set to protect you in a crash, and "lotsa luck chuck". Unbuckle the damn thing, or leave it slack enough to move around, and your unprotected in a crash.
This is unlike a modern car with a passive type restraint that automatically slackens as you move. The OEM is also bolted to the roof structure but because of its design it does not have a D ring sash to lower the belt height, so it will cut into your neck if tensioned properly to keep you in place in the event of a crash. With OEM 68-69 belts, you cannot reach anywhere when this is tensioned up. Also your lap belt has a second buckle receptacle on it to latch your shoulder belt in.
It works like this.
1 you buckle your lap belt, and tighten the belt like an airline seat belt.
2. Unclip the shoulder belt from the clip holder at the sun visor, unsnap the button at the back. Adjust and slide the buckle to put slack on the belt.
3. Buckle shoulder belt into lap belts second receptacle, and the adjust the shoulder belt tension like an airline seat belt.
4. To remove, and stow, do everything reverse of installation.
This is the main reason nobody used these things. They worked in a crash, but were not user friendly at all.
______________________________________________
Aftermarket wesco belts.
1. Grab belt receptacle on shoulder belt pull belt over to buckle end , and buckle up.
(Slack is automatically adjustable, and pendulum inside automatic adjuster locks in a crash)
So base what you want in your car on coolness/originality factor, or user friendliness. Honestly I dont think the belt in the window opening detracts badly. IMHO it kind of modernizes the vehicle a bit. I have had the OEM 2 piece belts before. TBH, the novelty quickly wore off and I found myself just using the lap belt and leaving the shoulder belt stowed all the time.
If given the choice between originality and ease of use, if I had a GTS 383 or 440 dart or something equally rare that rarely gets driven, I'd opt for the OEM belts. If I had something that's not as valuable that actually gets driven, I'd leave them dreadful OEM things in the dumpster, or sell em to a guy doing that 100 point rare car resto, but that's just me.
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Lord Sparky
Well-Known Member
You wont see nuttin’ if you de@d in a tree.
BWDart
Well-Known Member
Ya forgot to mention thats the one I got
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Sorry, I didnt know you got the one with the sash on it.
BWDart
Well-Known Member
I took your advise from a previous thread last yr
Gus Loza
Well-Known Member
yup. i remember doing all that with my 71 scamp. it was annoying. welp! im actually gona just go with those 3 point ones with the sash. do you have to modify the mounting points?. im in the middle of installing sound deadener on the floor and soon carpet.
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Gus Loza for a 68 up with factory equipped shoulder belts, you have to make 1 extra mount point. See pix of the ones I made with 3/16" thick 2&1/2" square tubing. The other stock mounting points you can reuse. The buckle ends are 2 different lengths based on weather or not you have buckets or a bench seat.
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Hey Matt, thanks for posting those pics! This thread came up on a search I did as I came across a pair of chrome coat hooks. I checked our 67 FB and there isnt any hooks, so Im glad I didnt sell them. Im thinking of installing them and your template will come in handy! Headliner is installed. I wonder how strong they are? Also your drawing/template pic #1 is for drivers side?
Thanks, be well
Steve
Thanks, be well
Steve
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Pic hardtop coupe drivers side. Fastback will be different.
Matt,
Getting ready to install aftermarket 3 point belts in the front of my 70 dart. It already had the mandatory factory shoulder belts (never used). Did you have any problem with clearance between the retractor and the bucket seat hinge covers on your car? I haven't tried the seats yet but the seem to be right across from one another in a tight spot. Glad I'm not trying to use bench seats!
Getting ready to install aftermarket 3 point belts in the front of my 70 dart. It already had the mandatory factory shoulder belts (never used). Did you have any problem with clearance between the retractor and the bucket seat hinge covers on your car? I haven't tried the seats yet but the seem to be right across from one another in a tight spot. Glad I'm not trying to use bench seats!
moparmat2000
Well-Known Member
Honestly I have not gotten that far with it yet. The retractor should end up being behind the seat. These pix are from another members car.
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