Finally, got my 5.9 Dart to the track. It went well, then it went to hell.

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mopar340dave said:
What is called hard anodizing requires some expensive processes and actually serves no purpose mechanically in this application. The design of the rockers provide for no aluminum wear surfaces. Anodizing these rockers would just add cost and make them a pretty color and I'm pretty sure that the Hughes site actually mentions that somewhere.

The purpose of anodizing is to harden the surface of the aluminum. This makes it more abrasion resistant and more corrosion resistant. Neither of these attributes are required for these rocker arms.

My Crane Gold Race rockers are hard anodized gold. Anyone who has a set can tell you that they generally have a final step before they are ready after anodizing, they hone the inside of the rocker, do any required thread chasing and ream the holes for the rollers and install the rollers. Why? Because the aluminum actually grows in the hard anodizing process. Some of the color will be removed from the bore when they hone them to fit the shafts but it will still be hard anodized. That surface is a bearing surface and the hard anodizing is just a little extra insurance against premature wear.

The color that you see on many anodized aluminum parts is optional and is nothing more than aesthetics or color coding. I use nuts for aircraft fasteners at work that are anodized aluminum. This app requires the anodizing. Different colors are used to designate different types of nuts (that are actually called collars). The "nut" part of the collar breaks off when the correct torque is reached and the "collar" is left behind instead of a nut. They are very light and strong and very corrosion and tamper resistant.
http://www.electrohio.com/Finishing/AlAnodizing/AlAnodizing.htm

And yup, POS, Jesel hasn't been anodizing in about twenty years, but no...there stuff is a proprietary blend in the 7000 series.....and it costs 4 times as much money....and they don't make a set for a magnum motor! I'm not even sure they make a set for a typical LA.
T&D does not anodize their stuff either and their site does not say what aluminum alloy the rockers are manufactured form. It may also be a 7000 series but keep in mind that these are being used in engines with crazy spring pressures and very high RPM. The rockers have less mass and require the extra strength and, once again, the price is real steep! LOL
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I'm totally happy with the hughes. The price is right.
I will not be even close to 7000 rpm. I'll probably limit the engine to 6500 to fall back on about 6000-6200 on the 1-2.

For the price, there is nothing IMO that is really comparable with maybe the exception of the harlands, but I really dont know about them. There are some from racer brown, but the pics I saw of them were ****.

I am not up for paying over a grand for rockers though when I really dont need them on a motor, but when I do need them....

check these out! hehe

:yawinkle:

000_0003.jpg
 
Those are pretty cool. I'm pretty biased against Jesel because of experiences I had with their junk on Twisted Wedge Ford heads.

The Harlands don't look to be adjustable?

Given all this information, the Hughes stuff seems about unbeatable, if you don't happen to already have too much lift anyway.....

Steve
 
Here's something that I find interesting:

Stock Magnum pushrod length 6.92

Comp used to sell a kit to convert Magnum to stud mount rockers (they still sell the studs and guideplates- pushrods are same as some small block Ford, rockers are Chevy).

Crane used to sell a stud conversion kit that said it used the stock pushrods (they had inserts in the guide plates to avoid metal to metal contact.

Pushrod length sold with this kit: 6.8

Pushrod length Hughes recommends for their standard stud mount rocker conversion:7.05

I just think its kind of weird that the hughes recommended PR is longer and the Comp is shorter.
 
I can not say it enough times..... pushrod length needs to be checked accurately and measured on EVERY engine we build and after you get the correct length pushrods you have to check all clearances around them (like contact with the head or head gasket). I don't care what ANY manufacturer claims YOU need for YOUR motor. We are not building production engines, we are building performance engines. Production engines have specs on each and every part that fall within a tolerance that are designed to work together. Like it or not guys, when we are building anything from mild to wild, it's a custom engine. This is just one of many parameters to check and it's just as important as your bottom end bearing clearances!
 
LXguy said:
Those are pretty cool. I'm pretty biased against Jesel because of experiences I had with their junk on Twisted Wedge Ford heads.

The Harlands don't look to be adjustable?

Given all this information, the Hughes stuff seems about unbeatable, if you don't happen to already have too much lift anyway.....

Steve
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the way I see it, I never look at the cam as one of the first things to tackle anyway. I start with the head, get an idea on flow, pick a valvetrain I am going to need, and then have a cam ground.
 
What Dave said!!!!!!!!!!!! Further to the discussion is the often heard phrase by novice engine builders "why should I have to go to custom push rods I didn't make any changes to the block deck or have the heads shaved and the guy told me the installed height of the valves was perfect". Well guess what maybe you didn't but what about the guy who had that engine last or the guy before him, did they make any changes who the hell knows. It's the same that goes for degreeing a camshaft, do you want to do it half assed or do it right, there's only been one way for me.

BTW I'm ordering the Hughes BB roller rocker kit with shafts and spacers and you guessed it a new set of finished one end push rods.
 
Yup, demon!:rock:

And you too POS!

P.S. And checking pushrod length is almost free.....
 
LXguy said:
Here's something that I find interesting:

Stock Magnum pushrod length 6.92

Comp used to sell a kit to convert Magnum to stud mount rockers (they still sell the studs and guideplates- pushrods are same as some small block Ford, rockers are Chevy).

Crane used to sell a stud conversion kit that said it used the stock pushrods (they had inserts in the guide plates to avoid metal to metal contact.

Pushrod length sold with this kit: 6.8

Pushrod length Hughes recommends for their standard stud mount rocker conversion:7.05

I just think its kind of weird that the hughes recommended PR is longer and the Comp is shorter.
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I think what amazed me more than all this ****, was how my Mopar roller rockers that were blue, actually turned green! hehe

I am not amazed at the multitude of recommendations regarding pushrod lengths. For the 1.65 ratio magnum shaft rollers hughes sells, they recommend 7.45 inch for the magnum engine usinng a roller cam and those are the shortest length they sell for these rockers.

You'll find that a lot of different rockers come in at different heights once the stem to roller pattern is established and that is the basis of their recommendation usually. but that's only where things start.

when you're dealing with shimming rockers, block and head decking etc....that **** goes out the window.

I have a set of the 7.45 inch pushrods and will try them because I think I might be very close the way my heads are shaved and how I had to shim up the rockers. but we'll see! I might be completely wrong. I have a checker so I guess I'll find out.

If I have to get new ones it just means I'll get some mantons.
 
I can't say enough positive things about Manton and their products. They take care of their customer and make top quality stuff. The tapered pushrods that they offer are incredible. I used a set of Manton chro-moly strait tube 3/8" ball and cup pushrods in my solid cam 340 and they made them for me on a Sunday while I waited and told me that they don't care how I break em (as in, with a hammer and an anvil!!! literally!!!), if they break, they will replace them! That's good stuff and good business! They were a bargain price too, at about $100 and change! This was back in 91 and I still have and use those pushrods. I have hammered a few of them THROUGH the lifter cup....minor "swaging" effect on the ball end....NO functional damage! They are tough and I still use em!
 
I don't have a problem checking it. IN fact, I have, and the stock length is good for this combination (stock replacement head, stock block, stock base circle, go figure).

Cam was originally spec'd for Edelbrock heads, but with all the positives about these EQ heads, I sold my aluminums and bought the Iron Rams. OOps. (wouldn't be having these problems if I stuck with Edelbrock - they're stud mount to start with, and you can order valve springs for them). Of course, if Hughes' comparative flow numbers are to be believed, maybe the car would be slower with E'brocks.

I just thought it was interesting that one supplier sells a kit with pushrods that measures one way, and the other goes the other way.

I've got the Comp guides and studs showing up today. I've got an old Crane stud conversion kit already. Mocking up both (yes, measuring pushrod length) and seeing where that takes me.

Steve
 
Welcome to getting screwed by hughes, all the stuff then put out is junk, went thru 3 cams, multiple lifters failing...I wouldn't ever go back . Mike at mrl will set u straight. And always measure pushrods urself I've learned the hard way too. The tool is cheap and will save u . Every motor is different
 
LX guy when you get your motor back together you need to check rocker arm geometry get your pattern over your valve check your coil bind and get it as close to coil bind that you can(less harmonics).Buy and adjustable pushrod checker(2) and see what your pushrod length will need to be. Get a set of Comp Cams 1 piece harden pushrod.
 
A 4 year old thread revived and IIRC, he sold the car a little over a year ago.
 
For anyone interested, the solution turned out to be a too-tight valve guide causing the valve to stick when it got hot. Hughes was close by so I took the head over there, they fixed it while I waited -at no charge), and I never had a problem again.

Car went on to run 11.70s many many times with the stock rockers and a slightly longer pushrod.

I sold the car in 2013, and miss it dearly!

Steve
 
Damn, 11.70's is freaking awesome for that combo. Great job!
 
LXguy said:
For anyone interested, the solution turned out to be a too-tight valve guide causing the valve to stick when it got hot. Hughes was close by so I took the head over there, they fixed it while I waited -at no charge), and I never had a problem again.

Car went on to run 11.70s many many times with the stock rockers and a slightly longer pushrod.

I sold the car in 2013, and miss it dearly!

Steve
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You racing mustangs again Steve?

That car always ran exceptionally well! Definitely the definition of a well sorted out car
 
I was just about to post that it could be a tight guide... then I saw how old the thread was.my black dodge truck did the same thing and that's what it was...poped one push rod out but didn't bend it.

I hit the valve a few times with a soft hammer,put it all back together and it never did it again.it was a roller la 318 with a .525 cam.

that dart was a kick *** car btw.
 
mshred said:
You racing mustangs again Steve?

That car always ran exceptionally well! Definitely the definition of a well sorted out car
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I was not sure why he sold that car even if he was a dyed-in-the-wool Mustang guy. It was a real sleeper and ran great for what it was. Good to see him reply though.

I got the idea that Steve may have thought Mopars were a little odd/frustrating. :banghead:
 
Haha, well they definitely are.

I sold the car because I was going to relocate to Austin Texas and the moving situation didn't allow for the hobby. Unfortunately, I ended up not moving, so I am still stuck in this hellhole and I've got no Dart!

I am currently helping a buddy run his '93 Cobra in NMRA Coyote Stock, and helping some other folks mess around with LSx stuff. Mopars are still my first love.

I will get back to it some day!
 
LXguy said:
Haha, well they definitely are.

I sold the car because I was going to relocate to Austin Texas and the moving situation didn't allow for the hobby. Unfortunately, I ended up not moving, so I am still stuck in this hellhole and I've got no Dart!

I am currently helping a buddy run his '93 Cobra in NMRA Coyote Stock, and helping some other folks mess around with LSx stuff. Mopars are still my first love.

I will get back to it some day!
Click to expand...

Gotta do whats right for you right

Good to hear everything is well!
 
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