Fitech Rotor Phasing

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superchargeddrt

superchargeddrt

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Hey Guys,
Just got off of the phone with Fitech. I had a few pre-installation questions. After talking with someone there who was "pinch hitting" for the tech support guys (guess they are slammed) I was informed that the unit will not with my Chrysler electronic distributor because there is no way to phase it. Is it true that I have to spend another $250.00 for a MSD pro billet distributor or have some of gotten this to work with the standard Chrysler distributor (locked out of course). Thanks for any insight you may have.
 
superchargeddrt said:
Hey Guys,
Just got off of the phone with Fitech. I had a few pre-installation questions. After talking with someone there who was "pinch hitting" for the tech support guys (guess they are slammed) I was informed that the unit will not with my Chrysler electronic distributor because there is no way to phase it. Is it true that I have to spend another $250.00 for a MSD pro billet distributor or have some of gotten this to work with the standard Chrysler distributor (locked out of course). Thanks for any insight you may have.
Click to expand...

I do it and it works fine.. Mopar performance distributor with Mallory guts allows for lock out.
Pm me if you like
 
Ken,
I'm interested in hearing about your solution also. I'm going "Fuel Only" at first but eventually want the Ecu on the Fitech unit to control my timing. Mine is a 65 Valiant Signet also. Single Turbo on E85.
 
It's a crap shoot.
I'm using my stock distributor. Used a plate from 4secondsflat that allows limiting the timing or locking it out. It works out just fine without any cross-fire. Phasing was OK for me as-is, but that may not be the case for all.

I'd suggest planning to run without timing control, but buy a spare distributor cap and cut a window in it to check your phasing.

When I first set it up, it was a nightmare - but then I double checked and realized I had the pickup wires reversed. Once I fixed that, it's been golden.
 
I have my motor set at 14 initial. I Confirmed with the Fitech handheld that the displayed handheld timing matches the timing I get off of my Timing light. Timing synchronization is confirmed at 2000 and at 4000 as well.

My distributor has the Mallory guts, so it was easy to lock the mechanical advance down. To confirm the phasing was reasonable, i did the hole the the cap, and with the timing light, verified that from initial 14 degrees to about 40, the swing of the rotor position was centered around the spark plug tower. So, at about 25 degrees advanced, the rotor is right in line with the spark plug tower.
I had purchased the modified reluctor that Rick ehrenberg sells, but my phasing range was centered so I left it alone.
I use an MSD 6al as well.

I could not understand the Fitech instructions about moving the rotor 10 degrees.. I think ( and I am not a mechanic by trade), the idea is to get the distributor firing as close to the spark tower as possible, throughout the range of the timing. and that's what mine does. Instead of guessing that 10 degrees is right, I just made sure it was centered while the motor is running.


Hope this helps??
 
ken5124 said:
I could not understand the Fitech instructions about moving the rotor 10 degrees.
Click to expand...

It's over simplified in their instructions. There's so many combos which can work, they just centered on 10 degrees as an example and because the FItech unit only has 45 degrees of advance allowable, it's relatively safe. They also assume that most operation will be done around the lower timing ranges, which is true of a street driven car.

Each user should strive to understand the issue (as you obviously do) and tune/setup accordingly.

If your gears put you at 3000 rpm on the highway, and you do a decent amount of driving there (like me) then your phasing should be close at that amount of timing. If your car is setup for the dragstrip with a huge-by-large stall converter, then phasing for 5-6k might be more reasonable. Likewise for those that tool around under 2500, setup for that RPM.

I can't wait for a decent Coil Near Plug setup to eliminate the spark distributor on my car.
 
Thanks for all of the input guys. I figured it should work but the guy I was talking to on the phone was adamant that I had to have the Mallory Pro Billet distributor. I plan on starting this next Saturday and I will do a complete thread on it. I will probably be coming back to you guys for more help I'm sure of it.
I realize the easy way out would be to not use the timing control but part of the lure of having this fuel injection system is to have timing pulled out as boost is coming in. Thanks again for your help.
 
Hey one more question, I think I read that if you have a CDI box that you should use the tach output as a trigger for the ECU. Where should you hook you tach to? Do you just connect both of them to the CDI tach wire?
 
Can't help on the CDI, but the big reason they insist on you phasing the rotor is because no one can know all the possible combinations of parts it takes - so they're just trying to save themselves a big hassle. You can make it work, but don't expect them to jump through hoops to help you make it work with parts they may not have ever seen, let alone used.

I know I made mine work with minimal effort and no adjustable rotor phasing.
 
Phreakish said:
Can't help on the CDI, but the big reason they insist on you phasing the rotor is because no one can know all the possible combinations of parts it takes - so they're just trying to save themselves a big hassle. You can make it work, but don't expect them to jump through hoops to help you make it work with parts they may not have ever seen, let alone used.

I know I made mine work with minimal effort and no adjustable rotor phasing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. It's encouraging to know that you were able to make it work. I am certainly going to try with my existing distributer. It seems that every time you THINK you bought everything you need, there's always something else.Thanks Again
 
IMG_4659.JPG
On the adjustable rotor, which way do we twist the thing? Fitech instructions are confusing.
http://fitechefi.com/fitech-uploads/2016/07/QuickStartGuideFinalV5.pdf

I'm shooting for 15* BTDC. According to Fitech, once I have my spark tower and rotor lined up to #1, I should twist the adjustable cap clockwise 15* or leaving the slot length longer on the left side? See above pic.

Watching another tutorial online for a SBC which rotates in the same direction, they twist that adjustable rotor in the opposite direction.
 
I'm going to pre-phase everything below with "with all due respect" because i want to come off as polite as possible... BUT...

This dead horse could not be beat any further into the ground than it has been across the fitech thread, and others.

I still take this tech call daily, and I still struggle with how/why someone would possibly sacrifice the functionality of a $1500 complete EFI system, at the expense of using a 40 year old distributor. (let alone a turbo/boost application where timing control/boost retard would be critical)
buy these...done... 100% success rate.
TSP-JM7613R Mopar SB Pro Series Pro-Billet Electronic Distributor. Red Cap
Adjustable Race Rotor MSD Ignition 84211 - Pace Performance Parts

Ken, When someone asks "will this work with my stock distributor" And you tell them YES... But then clearly state you have a mopar performance distributor, which is a mallory, with modified guys, I don't understand what favor you're doing them? Thats not a 1972 OEM distributor. It has modified guts, a different phasser, and Mallory has been purchased by three vendors since those parts were readily avail.

"will this work with my stock mopar distributor?"
1. Fitech told you no. Why is this? because you have to take it apart, Lock it, shield the wires, figure out how to phase the rotor, and then possibly STILL fight spark jump as the terminal position is closer together on the base circle than a billet type, and it STILL probably won't work because the tach signal is "dirty"
2. You just paid $1500 on a fitech and new fuel system... Do you want it to work the first time and blow you away? or spend hours playing with a distributor that they tell you won't work, with the only tech support you're going to get is on this thread, from the handful of guys who "kinda" made a mopar distributor work, when hundreds have not.

Thats all I have to add to this one, No offense meant to anyone. The above is my opinion, and apparently fitechs also.
 
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Johnny Pace- I don't think you are referring to me with your opinion. After all, you sold me the distributor and you would be preaching to the choir anyway. Lol.

After thinking about my own questions and looking at pics of the phasable rotor, I'm pretty sure I have mine advanced 15*, not retarded. The pics in the Fitech guide are confusing. Does anybody else agree with me? I'm rotating the rotor in the wrong direction? Thanks!
 
mark your distributor body where #1 and #2 posts will align. then rotate your engine to the lowest and highest point you plan on running timing. If your rotor tip creeps toward that halfway point between #1 and #2, you are going to have problems. The reason this is so crucial for this system, is the rotor does not physically move as timing changes, so the older vacuum/mechanical style distributor is basically "self phasing" for lack of a better term. So at your base timing, you will want the rotor PAST the #1 post, so as the timing advances, it's not firing so early its snagging the previous post. I had to draw it out with crayons to understand it myself..
 
subcom said:
Johnny Pace- I don't think you are referring to me with your opinion. After all, you sold me the distributor and you would be preaching to the choir anyway. Lol.

After thinking about my own questions and looking at pics of the phasable rotor, I'm pretty sure I have mine advanced 15*, not retarded. The pics in the Fitech guide are confusing. Does anybody else agree with me? I'm rotating the rotor in the wrong direction? Thanks!
Click to expand...

You're correct, nothing above was for you.lol we were probably typing at the same time. You're configuring the rotor so when the spark "hits" its lining up with the terminal for the entire sweep, not just "wherever"

Does that make sense? For clockwire rotation, you'd spin it further clockwise. I believe there is a line on the rotor indicating 10 degrees
 
So when you say, "you will want the rotor PAST the #1 post" do you mean before it reaches the #1 post or literally past and on it's way to the second post?
 
JoeSBP said:
mark your distributor body where #1 and #2 posts will align. then rotate your engine to the lowest and highest point you plan on running timing. If your rotor tip creeps toward that halfway point between #1 and #2, you are going to have problems. The reason this is so crucial for this system, is the rotor does not physically move as timing changes, so the older vacuum/mechanical style distributor is basically "self phasing" for lack of a better term. So at your base timing, you will want the rotor PAST the #1 post, so as the timing advances, it's not firing so early its snagging the previous post. I had to draw it out with crayons to understand it myself..
Click to expand...
stated it better than i did!
 
JoeSBP said:
mark your distributor body where #1 and #2 posts will align. then rotate your engine to the lowest and highest point you plan on running timing. If your rotor tip creeps toward that halfway point between #1 and #2, you are going to have problems. The reason this is so crucial for this system, is the rotor does not physically move as timing changes, so the older vacuum/mechanical style distributor is basically "self phasing" for lack of a better term. So at your base timing, you will want the rotor PAST the #1 post, so as the timing advances, it's not firing so early its snagging the previous post. I had to draw it out with crayons to understand it myself..
Click to expand...

My "advanced" crayon drawing. Is this what you are talking about? Thanks!

SBM-Firing-Order.jpg
 
Yes, Set your initial timing to fire AFTER the #1 post. As your timing advances, the firing will get closer to #1, will full advance happening prior to the post.
 
Johnny Pace said:
I'm going to pre-phase everything below with "with all due respect" because i want to come off as polite as possible... BUT...

This dead horse could not be beat any further into the ground than it has been across the fitech thread, and others.

I still take this tech call daily, and I still struggle with how/why someone would possibly sacrifice the functionality of a $1500 complete EFI system, at the expense of using a 40 year old distributor. (let alone a turbo/boost application where timing control/boost retard would be critical)
buy these...done... 100% success rate.
TSP-JM7613R Mopar SB Pro Series Pro-Billet Electronic Distributor. Red Cap
Adjustable Race Rotor MSD Ignition 84211 - Pace Performance Parts

Ken, When someone asks "will this work with my stock distributor" And you tell them YES... But then clearly state you have a mopar performance distributor, which is a mallory, with modified guys, I don't understand what favor you're doing them? Thats not a 1972 OEM distributor. It has modified guts, a different phasser, and Mallory has been purchased by three vendors since those parts were readily avail.

"will this work with my stock mopar distributor?"
1. Fitech told you no. Why is this? because you have to take it apart, Lock it, shield the wires, figure out how to phase the rotor, and then possibly STILL fight spark jump as the terminal position is closer together on the base circle than a billet type, and it STILL probably won't work because the tach signal is "dirty"
2. You just paid $1500 on a fitech and new fuel system... Do you want it to work the first time and blow you away? or spend hours playing with a distributor that they tell you won't work, with the only tech support you're going to get is on this thread, from the handful of guys who "kinda" made a mopar distributor work, when hundreds have not.

Thats all I have to add to this one, No offense meant to anyone. The above is my opinion, and apparently fitechs also.
Click to expand...
Started to go the stock Mopar distributor route (even bought the lock out plate) but then for the very reasons Johnny states I changed my mind and bought the TSP distributor from him. I can't say enough good things about him. He was GREAT to work with and he rushed my distributor to me somehow even when it wasn't in Stock. Thanks again Johnny.
 
Subcom- I apologize completely. I completely missed that you resurrected this thread. I missed the date stamp sorry for answering the wrong question initially....you grave digger. Lol
 
Johnny Pace said:
Subcom- I apologize completely. I completely missed that you resurrected this thread. I missed the date stamp sorry for answering the wrong question initially....you grave digger. Lol
Click to expand...
Hahaha no worries
 
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So after sketching this out on a piece of paper, I have been retarding my rotor 15*. 15* behind #1 post and after #2.

I should be going the opposite direction according to you guys. In other words 15* advanced and past #1? Between #1 and #8 on the dizzy cap.
 
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