Flip job!

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A short flipper story.

I used to be far worse at buying cars just for a few parts. I bought every $150 car or truck it felt like. I found a Mercedes at a tow yard. It was my intention to swap a Mercedes Diesel into a 4x4. I paid something like $200 for the car. DMV etc. had me into it close to $300. Kept if for a year and then figured that I didn't need it.

Advertised it on a 4x4 site for something like $450 or so. A reasonably local guy and I start talking. He and I come to terms, something like $400 cash. This is after talking off and on for a couple of weeks.

I find out later on that he had "pre-advertised" the car on the same website. It was a one owner doctors car, clean, and even had a few less miles on it. Definately the same car, since he used my pictures. This was BEFORE he bought it. Truth is that it was a worn out druggie car that was well-abused.

I kinda enjoyed watching the price drop week by week. He ended up leaving the site and moved onto other forms of deception I am sure.

As far as flipping in general, it is not a huge issue of bother with me. Yeah, it makes you sick, but not worth losing sleep over. I don't like to see lies, and an immediate flip while taking advantage of others. I had it happen to me recently with a car that I was negotiating on. It was bought and attempted to sell while still on the trailer. But....that is life.
 
1972DusterPaul said:
...I don't see kids today clammering for classics and muscle cars...
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This may be a matter of perception. When I was in high school (coming of age time for car appreciation for most of us), the cars everyone was interested in was late '60s - early '70s. I graduated in '93, so that is a 20 to 25 year spread. Think about what is 20 to 25 years old right now. With the increases in fuel, insurance, and other factors, not every kid is going to want to plunk down for a Fox, F or G body when he can get a 25mpg car with similar acceleration and better handling. Now why so many kids intentionally choosing 4dr cars, I can't understand. But I think the only thing that really changed here is the cars.
 
rmchrgr said:
I'm demoralized when I see stuff get flipped like this. This post was just lamenting the current state of price gouging. Everyone thinks their junk is worth 60-90% more than it really is, thus artificially pricing things out of reach for the common buyer. Am I naive? Maybe.

I've sold 5 cars over the last 4 years and took a hit on all of them. I did in fact set initial pricing at the higher end (but not an unreasonable 60-90% higher). Accordingly, there were only lowball offers and/or little to no interest. I held on to some of the cars for over a year. Eventually I relented and sold all at a loss. That's obviously how it works.

Like has been said before, this used to be a somewhat cheaper hobby but now you need to take a second mortgage out to enjoy it. Again, my belief is that the initial buy in for a clean but lower level car is out of proportion to what the cars are actually worth.

But in the end, worth is determined by someone who pays too much, not the seller fishing for a profit.
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easy fellas, this guy hasent sold the car yet, he just listed it...theres a difference ... you hit it on the head above, you listed your cars at a higher than anticipated sale price and ended up selling at a loss, this guy listed at a high price (albeit higher than its true value) but the bids arent high yet.....wait and see what it sells for and well see how many idiot buyers are still around...ebays full of em
 
I have noticed the prices are moving back up on old muscle cars. Stuff has been depressed for a couple years now, but the prices seem to be coming back up.

Never, ever sell a classic car in the fall. Cruise season is over and people would have to buy something just to store it all winter. You will get a lot less for your car.

Always sell in the spring if possible. Tax return checks show up and people want something they can drive now.

Besides, a lot of the time, the reason someone doesn't get $3-$5K more for their car is because they don't have time to wait or the balls to ask.

I don't think dude will get 12.5K for that car. I think they are using Ebay as a means to advertise their car nationally, and don't want to sell it through Ebay due to the high seller fees. They hung that high price on it in case some rich boomer is out there looking for the exact car he had in high school, or is looking to build a Super Stock clone.

I won't say that the flipping is necessarily wrong, but I can definitely see the objection, and yes it is detrimental to the hobby. On the flip, a bunch of young kids getting their hands on A-bodies would mean that there would be fewer A-bodies in short order....
 
Johnny Dart said:
Asking $25k for my $2500.00 Dart.
Guess that will really piss you off.
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asking and getting it , obviously are two different things. BUT, if you found that one person out there that for some reason, would give you that, would anyone in their right mind pass that up ? NO.
 
Guys, I feel like I need to clarify again. I am definitely not losing sleep over this Dart or anyone flipping cars for that matter. What is bothersome is the trend, that's it.

Was the muscle car market always like this? To an extent, yeah. There's always the shiesters who are in it for the cash. Also, the internet has made everything so immediate so of course there's going to be more fishing going on because of the wider audience.

It has also allowed potential buyers access to cars that were not visible outside of their local area. Unless you had a network of guys calling you up when they saw something, you really didn't know about it so the demand was lower. Now anyone with a computer can search millions of listings for whatever they want. They pick up the phone and make a few calls and it's done. We've all done it. I've done it now several times. It's creating an imaginary demand which is fine but the pricing is out of proportion to actual worth. Again, the problem lies in the one guy who overspends which creates the ripple effect.

I don't know what the outcome of this trend is. It's objectionable because these guys are just moving stuff around without much regard to exactly what they're moving. Is it OK for me not to agree with that? Again, I don't care what people do with their cars, what they try and sell them for or whatever. I'm done looking for cars, I have one now that I am not letting go of.

I guess I just like to see people hold on to their cars or see guys get realistic deals on cars they plan to fix up. I always like to see that others have the same level of attachment as I do. These are unique cars from a unique period in time, guess I just would like to see more appreciation for it instead of attaching an arbitrary monetary value to something being sold.

And again - am I naive? I guess so.
 
I LOL'd at this thread. Im one of those punk kids that has an A Body among other toys. Im not rich by no means, just have my priorities in order! Now I run my own archery shop and sign business, when I buy a used bow off somebody, put a new string and cable on it, freshen it up some and ask $200 more for than I paid for it after I took the time to buy it, freshen it up and try to make a profit so I can eat tonight Im breaking every moral and ethics code in the book? Its called business whether this fella is trying to make a living or just fund his hobby. Now I do agree classic Mopar prices have skyrocketed but that makes them all them more worth it. Anybody can have a Chebby, Pontichicken or Furd but not everybody can have a real car! If the Mopar hobby is just too high for some of you that are on here whining about it then its time to sell and get somethin you can afford. They say Honda and Toyota make a nice affordable transportation appliance these days.
 
73AbodEE said:
asking and getting it , obviously are two different things. BUT, if you found that one person out there that for some reason, would give you that, would anyone in their right mind pass that up ? NO.
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Exactly my point.....:thumbup:
 
Common buyer???? Flipper???Who are you to dictate what the price of a given object is worth??? In 66 I gave 1995.00 for a mustang.Last week I gave2500.00 for a rusted 69 340 S cuda.Noone told me what to give for either and noone will tell me what I should sell parts for.You whine because noone is giving you parts/cars.The hobby/market will do just fine without you.Go get a bicycle,but after that i'm sure you would complain about having to pedal!!!
 
Think about this.
AMD is making a lot of new reproduction body panels for our Mopars.
If there wasn't profit to be made, they wouldn't bother with it period. Higher selling prices of the cars fuels this market, as well as the desireability.
The only problem i have with people is when they lie to you to get a car or parts, they try to lowball you and are selling you a sob story about their illness, health, financial situation etc. and the next thing you know, it's for sale for a profit because they ''had no choice''. Been there, done that!
I learned my lessons well after being in the trenches for a lot of years. I've dealt with them all, flippers, whiners, dreamers, and some really good people and realistic car enthusiasts.
If there was a lot of money to be made, all of the car lots would have them on there.....they are the biggest flippers of all! But everyone loves them and keep going back for more!
Forget the Barrett Jackson b.s., that day is over!
Like i say, shop around and be patient. There isn't a lot of money to be made on these cars anyway, so the market will fix itself.
 
rmchrgr said:
This is what I'm saying, the initial buy in is out of proportion to what these cars are worth. How much was this car when it was new, $2K? Break it down - Dart 270, a lower end model. No special equipment, just a 273 2 bbl, column 904, 7.25 but Ok, its got A/C. GOLD. Your basic old lady car. No performance pedigree, not even any high performance mods. How does the perceived value of this car increase so much? To me, it's unrealistic.

No, its not rusty and is in decent shape but how do you come up with anything over $7K? Seriously. You can play devils advocate all you want but again, this is the attitude of people these days that prevents guys with a little less from getting into lower level cars. Of course, all it takes is one fool but the problem has a ripple effect. Someone sees this ad and thinks "hey this guy thinks his old Dart is worth a million bucks, so is mine!" You get the idea.

During my recent search, I saw what looked like a pretty decent green Duster on Ebay. It was in nice shape but like the Dart, the car was basic transport. Car still had drum brakes, 7.25 etc. I think it had a mild 360 in it with manifolds. Guy was also asking $12K. I actually ended up talking to him trying to feel out where he was at. I probably would have given him $8k but he wouldn't even listen to anything under $11K. What are you getting for 11 grand? OK body that was painted, an interior that was dyed and throwaway running gear?

Maybe its me though. Not sure how everyone else views these cars when they are looking for one to buy, but I wanted a decent platform to modify. I will add that I was willing to pay a little extra for a nice car since I factor in the price of paint and body work. I'd rather not spend the money on cosmetics and it's usually cheaper to buy an original/done car than to fully restore a beater. So if it was in good shape, I considered it but also needed to consider the extra cost of building an engine and driveline. So now that original, lower level car I was looking for was turning into a $20K project. Also unrealistic.

In my opinion, it's warped. Fortunately, I was in a position to buy a good car recently but for someone who may be on a tighter budget, the lower level cars that used to be throwaways are now out of reach. Obviously if you can't afford it then you probably shouldn't be looking for cars beyond your means but guys are being priced out of the bottom cars.
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I agree with you 100%. Im more than capable of rebuilding and restoring my own car,in spite of M.S. And yet now I cannot afford the parts to do it,because of the artificially inflated prices of dreamers still living in 2006.

This hobby is out of control. But I can guarantee that nobody here will end up with any of my mopar stuff if my car never makes it to the finish. I'll burn it to the ground and post a video to youtube,along with a rant. I wont give a **** about my monetary loses or anybodies hurt feelings. WHY SHOULD I? None of these guys asking too much for parts care anything about anything other than money.
 
LXguy said:
Never, ever sell a classic car in the fall. Cruise season is over and people would have to buy something just to store it all winter. You will get a lot less for your car.

Always sell in the spring if possible. Tax return checks show up and people want something they can drive now.
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This concept holds true to all vehicles, in a similar pattern.

4x4's sell best just before winter, Jeeps on the other hand tend to hold their value no matter what season (but interest really picks up during mudding/off-roading seasons)

Motorcycles and Muscle Cars/other sporty toys sell best in the Spring (especially after tax return time) or Summer.

This also applies to Plow Parts. In the summer, a Meyers E-series pump/cylinder could cost you $200 - $300 for your plow truck that managed to survive another harsh winter. come fall/early winter the prices will skyrocket to $700+ and continue to climb as the months of cold stretch on.

In the summer months, you could pick up an old plow for a decent price (i've even done work out 'in the field' to earn complete plow setups) but when fall rolls around, nobody wants to part with their plow/plow truck or is asking a price that would make you think it was an E-Body car instead (and people will pay it, because they need that truck/part) the beat up rusty pickup with a snow plow that nobody would touch in the summer for $800, becomes a $4,000 truck that sells almost instantly.
 
this bothers me... little.

Know what bothers me more? Paint, primer, etc... about $400 tops for a simple job. Cost to have your car painted in most any body shop? $2k :| Robbery I tells ya.
 
Yeah them painters suck!!But mechanics suck too!!!upholsters suck too!!!Tire guys suck too!!!Only great guy that I know of is MEEEEEEE!!!!!
 
the hobby is not out of control...its called inflation, period

as with anything that is no longer produced, if it is still demanded the price goes up, its simple boys these musclecars are not being produced anymore and although a bodies are very numerous they will eventually become rarer and rarer and the rusty ones cost 3 arms and 4 legs to restore with AMD repo parts and such and lobour costs associated.

why do you think 40,000 2011 challengers sell? demand for that era musclecar.

rust free bodies are goin up in price..

just like gasoline...weve reached peak global production , from here on out its gonna get more expensive .... very quickly

the days of $1.95 gas and $2300.00 rustfree 1970 340 cars are gone

years ago b-bodies were starting to rise like a-bodies now are .... price a good 318 1969 sattelite lately?
 
Sully1190 said:
this bothers me... little.

Know what bothers me more? Paint, primer, etc... about $400 tops for a simple job. Cost to have your car painted in most any body shop? $2k :| Robbery I tells ya.
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You cant buy a gallon of good paint for $400 anymore. Primer is over $100 a gallon so is clear. If you can get a paint job for 2K your doing good.

I totally understand inflation guys, everything but our wages are bound to go up, these cars obviously arent being made anymore but there are to many guys out there trying to make a killing buying and selling cars and parts.

Maybe Im just jealous or maybe its that I would rather lose money to help someone out and see them enjoying what was a huge part of my life for the last 18 years. Either way it sucks that I cant afford to play this game anymore.
 
1mopar4life said:
INow I run my own archery shop and sign business, when I buy a used bow off somebody, put a new string and cable on it, freshen it up some and ask $200 more for than I paid for it after I took the time to buy it, freshen it up and try to make a profit so I can eat tonight Im breaking every moral and ethics code in the book?
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No one ever said anything like that. Or even close actually. Someone has a pretty good idea a shop owner is looking to flip something when they go to a shop to sell it.

Now, if you represented yourself as a guy barely getting by who could really use a sweet deal on a bow, or really needed something to feed his starving family (could you come down a couple of bucks?), then yes, that would be immoral.

I'm not saying someone should have to declare their intent to flip, but they needn't make up any BS stories either.

If you buy something from someone for $2500 and you know its worth $25,000 (as is), yes that is immoral. I am not sure where the line is between getting a good deal and taking advantage of someone, but its somewhere before 1000% profit on a multi-thousand dollar item.

"Morality is the enemy of capitalism. Fortunately, it is easily exploited for financial gain."

Also: I find when I buy a part or something, then change my mind about it, I have to ask a higher price, just to stay even. There are a lot of guys out there who think they have to knock some off of asking price or they won't buy. If you want to be sure you get a ton of lowballers, just put "selling for what I paid for it" in the ad.
 
Well, I personally don't get the notion that you can't afford to play the game anymore Adam. If you're patient and take your time you can certainly find a decent little driver and play with it for little money and enjoy it for what it is. I don't think anyone has the clout to just open up the old wallet and charge a couple thou on parts on a whim. I never could and still can't. I see decent cars all the time go for decent money, you just gotta be patient!!

Can you guess what I paid for this little car here just last month?? How much do think it's worth?? Which should I sell it for?? Or, how bout something in between??

It's a blast to drive, everything works and yes, it needs a few things and a bunch of upgrades, but it's all there and mostly all original. Oh, did I tell you how much fun it is to drive it, and not worry about how much high dollar stuff I should be doing to it??!!! Geof
 

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This is inflation, if you had 10 dimes from when gas was 10 cents a gallon, You could still buy 10 gallons with them today.

I don't know how this is relevant but it is interesting.

Bottom line is are you upset that someone bought a 12.5 K car for 7 k or visa versa.
If you ask me its all of you guys selling stuff too cheap that bringing down the price of my car, so stop it. :)
 
There is nothing around here for anything resembling a fair price. The last 2 cars I looked at were a rotted Super Bee for 8K and a rotted 73 Duster 340 for $3500. There is no such thing as a driver in this area for under $5000. $5000 is out of my range for a car that is going to need a ton of work.

I could buy something from the south r the west and have it shipped here for another $1500 but after the last car I bought site unseen that was described to me as mostly solid Im not dieing to put my trust in someone elses description.
 
AdamR said:
I could buy something from the south r the west and have it shipped here for another $1500 but after the last car I bought site unseen that was described to me as mostly solid Im not dieing to put my trust in someone elses description.
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enlist the help of fellow Fabo members, and other members of the mopar community. Somebody out there will be willing to go look at the car for you and give you the good, bad and ugly...(wah-wa-waaah... I can almost hear the sorrowful tune from that pocket watch :D )

I had one member from an off-road site dedicated to dodges, travel to North Carolina to pick up a rolling shell to use for parts to rebuild my '76 Dodge Ramcharger. He hauled it back for the cost of fuel split several ways (other members jumped on my bandwagon and got in on the deal to get stuff they needed hauled as well, to cut costs for everybody). We're actually good friends now due to that deal.
 
Quote: I could buy something from the south r the west and have it shipped here for another $1500 but after the last car I bought site unseen that was described to me as mostly solid Im not dieing to put my trust in someone elses description.

Yea Adam, I remember that rusted out pile of crap you had delivered, what a job eh. By the way did you get that bucket of crap off of ebay or was it craigslist. (nudge nudge).:glasses7:
 
AdamR said:
You cant buy a gallon of good paint for $400 anymore. Primer is over $100 a gallon so is clear. If you can get a paint job for 2K your doing good.
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I'm talking very basic. TCP global single colors, primer, and you don't really need clear unless you're trying to make a show car.
 
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