72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
In my experience a pressure plate is a pressure plate. I don't see why you would want a 10.5" disc with an 11" pressure plate though, I would just buy a matched clutch/pp kit and go.
Flywheel questions...
- Thread starter MoparPowa
- Start date
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DionR
Well-Known Member
Certainly not an absolute necessity in most cases. I wasn't suggesting to relocate it in any kind of a "micky mouse" manor, either. If I get it done, I expect it to be fully welded in, might as well have been cast that way then.
And my situation doesn't exactly the match the OP situation as I'd like to keep the 130T flywheel that is already match balanced to my 360, and I don't want to have to rebuild my exhaust. I was only suggesting it here because based on Buschi's posts, I didn't think a 143T flywheel was available for the 3G Hemi, which doesn't sound like the case any longer.
And I'm pretty sure my R154 transmission cost lest than your bellhousing, so in some ways a little rework might actually be cost effective. But we covered that ground with Ryan's Duster on the yahoo group, so I will drop it.
Questions I don't have an answer for, but may get your creative thoughts going.
1. Does the Hemi crank and the 3.7L V6 Jeep crank have the same flywheel bolt pattern? (they both have 8 bolts)
2. If so, can you use the 10.5" Jeep 3.7L flywheel, bellhousing and starter on the Hemi?
Just askin'... After all, I am a Junkyard Dawg....
Greg
1. Does the Hemi crank and the 3.7L V6 Jeep crank have the same flywheel bolt pattern? (they both have 8 bolts)
2. If so, can you use the 10.5" Jeep 3.7L flywheel, bellhousing and starter on the Hemi?
Just askin'... After all, I am a Junkyard Dawg....
Greg
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
See below... I would like more information on why the stock starter can't engage the ring gear... The stock jeep flywheel is also a dual mass flywheel from what I'm finding and I'm not interested in that.
DionR
Well-Known Member
???
Per the post you linked from Clair - "Unfortunately, the flywheel ring gear on the 10.5" flywheel is located too far to the rear to engage the starter bendix. I haven't put juice to the starter yet, but it eyeballs like there will be little, if any, mesh between the bendix and ring gear."
Or maybe you are asking why the stock (not the 3.7L) starter wouldn't engage the ring gear?
Per the same post - "Obviously, you'll need a KJ starter as well, as all the other "typical" Mopar starters don't have the same locating ring on the snout, AND they're too deep as well."
Am I misunderstanding you? If so, I apologize.
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
No apologies necessary!
I guess I was reading it wrong. For whatever reason I thought it still wouldn't work even with the stock 3.7L starter. I guess that does put the 3.7L bellhousing back on the table when all of the original components are used. I do have some concerns however about using it, such as the passengers side starter, as well as the dual mass flywheel(can anyone confirm this?) that I have no use for. Can anyone find a picture of the 3.7L bell? I thought I stumbled on one a few days ago and then my computer restarted and I haven't yet been able to find it again. I have read that the 3.7/4.7/5.7 have the same crank bolt pattern, can anyone confirm this? Additionally, that only leaves the ability to use the stock 3.7L starter, would it be up to turning over a much larger engine over the long term? Makes me wonder... If the crank bolt patterns were the same I guess it would be possible to use a 4.7L flywheel but in all likelihood those are probably dual mass too.
DionR
Well-Known Member
You could always cut a starter pocket out of a 727 or 904 bellhousing and weld it into the Liberty bellhousing. Then you could use a Liberty bell and 130T flywheel. ;)
:angel9:
:angel9:
DionR
Well-Known Member
2002 Dodge 4.7 Flywheel - doesn't look like a dual mass to me, but I don't know if the picture matches reality.
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
To answer your question... Quite simply, lower weight and higher availability. Just need an 11" flywheel drilled for the 10.5" clutch pattern, multiple aftermarket already come this way... Although I am trying to avoid aftermarket in general, just so expensive for flywheel.
lol, don't go starting trouble now DionR! Nah, seems like way too much work when you have a clean slate like me to work from. I could understand why that would seem preferable in your situation to maintain your stock and balanced rotating assembly.
Well, you have redeemed yourself with this new information. It's got me thinking. Maybe, just maybe, if the 4.7L flywheel isn't dual mass and it has the 5.7 hemi bolt pattern then I could just use it in the 3.9L bellhousing. Presto! No aftermarket flywheel needed? More research...
Update:
Found the post I was thinking of, it compares the 3.9L and 4.7L bellhousing, not 3.7L. However, he does discuss a little bit about the flywheels, really only figuring out that the NAPA part number for the actual ring gear is the same for either flywheel. Doesn't really confirm anything else I suppose. Need to verify bolt pattern and flywheel style(not dual mass knock on wood), already know the size and tooth count is correct for the 3.9L bell, 143 tooth/11" diameter.
Update2:
Well, this post, albeit confusing and somewhat muddled does seem to confirm that the 5.7L flywheel will bolt up to the 4.7, vice versa then perhaps? Now to confirm material/style... Also have to verify that the 4.7L is internally balanced, otherwise this is all really pointless. Anybody have any ideas?
LOL! SO... those creative juices are REALLY flowing now! 
So how would I approach this...
Over on www.car-part.com, if you do a search on 2003 Jeep Liberty - transmission bellhousing only- 3.7L, you'll find a couple for about 50 bucks. You can also find some 4.7 flywheels from the Durango and Liberty for cheap as well. Saw a 3.7L starter for 35 bucks. Could be if you contacted the vendors and requested a pic of the bellhousing and other items, you might get some more data points. Of course, the if you CAN use the 3.7 bellhousing, it might give a tad more room for headers.
....and.... I've found a REAL good source for pics and data and info is...... EBAY! Do searches on those items and you'll be able to connect to people that have them.
Just sayin...
Greg
"This ain't my first rodeo...."
So how would I approach this...
Over on www.car-part.com, if you do a search on 2003 Jeep Liberty - transmission bellhousing only- 3.7L, you'll find a couple for about 50 bucks. You can also find some 4.7 flywheels from the Durango and Liberty for cheap as well. Saw a 3.7L starter for 35 bucks. Could be if you contacted the vendors and requested a pic of the bellhousing and other items, you might get some more data points. Of course, the if you CAN use the 3.7 bellhousing, it might give a tad more room for headers.
....and.... I've found a REAL good source for pics and data and info is...... EBAY! Do searches on those items and you'll be able to connect to people that have them.
Just sayin...
Greg
"This ain't my first rodeo...."
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
I do know that some guys have swapped 5.7's in Dakotas and bolted them up to the original 4.7 trans.
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
LOL! SO... those creative juices are REALLY flowing now!
So how would I approach this...
Over on www.car-part.com, if you do a search on 2003 Jeep Liberty - transmission bellhousing only- 3.7L, you'll find a couple for about 50 bucks. You can also find some 4.7 flywheels from the Durango and Liberty for cheap as well. Saw a 3.7L starter for 35 bucks. Could be if you contacted the vendors and requested a pic of the bellhousing and other items, you might get some more data points. Of course, the if you CAN use the 3.7 bellhousing, it might give a tad more room for headers.
....and.... I've found a REAL good source for pics and data and info is...... EBAY! Do searches on those items and you'll be able to connect to people that have them.
Just sayin...
Greg
"This ain't my first rodeo...."
I use car-part.com all the time.
I have searched a multitude of times for all of these parts, the main issue is just that all of the yards are so far away from me. 2.5+ hours one way. I agree about asking them for some photos, I think I'll give that a shot. I use ebay as well for pictures of specific parts, but it's tough when the parts aren't listed. :sad1:Can anyone confirm the 3.7L bellhousing is a passenger side starter? I feel like I've read this before but now I'm doubting it for some reason. If it is indeed passenger side starter than I don't see any point in pursuing using the 3.7L bell. I'm still looking for details on the 4.7L flywheel as it should work in the 3.9L bell.
Yeah, I figured the 4.7L must be pretty familiar... Hopefully the 4.7L's flywheel will be a usable option for the 3.9L bellhousing.
Sorry, I miss your question. Lower hole was ok, I just tilted upper part closer and made a new hole. There was enough material, but no specific boss for that. And the starter pocket "nose guide" needed some trimming inside the bell, if I remember right. Which is no problem, cause RAM MP starters bendix gear is supported on its own.
Surely it would be easier to go with 143t with Dakota bell, but I got hemi alu-flywheel so cheap that I went this way.
As a pilot bearing, I was using `90-up mopar pilot bearing sleeve, and just opened the center hole for Toyota bearing, and didnt push it too deep, so the input shaft tip slide good amount in.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I found several pictures that led me to believe it is a drivers side mount, but didn't post anything because I wasn't sure I wasn't being tricked.
I can try and find them again tomorrow and post one or two, if you want. Just didn't want to lead anyone down the wrong path.
DionR
Well-Known Member
No worries. Thanks for the info!!
This pic you've previously posted IS a Jeep Liberty 3.7L V6 bellhousing. I can tell because it is less "phat" than the Dakota 3.9L V6 bellhousing. And yes, the starter is on the DRIVERS side.
http://www.factorychryslerparts.com...iveline=7463&ukey_trimlevel=18760&modelYear=0
Greg
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
Hi Jousi, did you experience also shifting problems under full load acceleration like on the track?
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
Can't lead anyone astray when nobody is sure! I won't turn down any help.
This pic you've previously posted IS a Jeep Liberty 3.7L V6 bellhousing. I can tell because it is less "phat" than the Dakota 3.9L V6 bellhousing. And yes, the starter is on the DRIVERS side.
http://www.factorychryslerparts.com...iveline=7463&ukey_trimlevel=18760&modelYear=0
Greg
Greg, hate to disappoint but you're looking at the diagram for an NSG370 6-speed 3.7L from 2009. Totally diffetent from the 01-04 bellhousings listed in your original guide. As for the bellhousing above, until we can find a visual representation of the 3.7L, I'm inclined to continue assuming that's a 3.9L bell.
Going WAY back through my emails and pic, I've found two pics Clair sent me many years ago of HIS 3.7L V6 bellhousing. It is IDENTICAL to the pic you posted. Since I'm unable to post it here (don't know why), I can send it to you to post.
BTW, on the right is a genuine Dodge Dakota 3.9l V6 bellhousing. I should know, it used to belong to me (but now belongs to 71Scamper!).
Notice it has TWO slots on top while the bell in your pic has one. They are not the same. The bell in your pic is the Liberty V6 bell also used for the Jeep 2.8L Diesel. Also notice the starter pocket is tucked in a tad closer to the block than the Dakota.
Send me a PM with your email address.
Greg
Servus Buschi
, mine is usually working ok, just couple times I have been grinding from 3th to 4th under WOT accelaration. Hard down shiftings, I try to use double clutching. With cold oils my box need some patience.
I overhauled it with new syncros, thrust washer etc. And it was anyway very low mileage box with only minimal wear on engagement rings.
DionR
Well-Known Member
I think Greg is right. I found the same picture online and read what the guy was saying when he posted it, and per my understanding that would be a 3.7L bellhousing.
Here is the thread I found it in.
Also, I noticed that the above pictured one doesn't have a slot for the crank sensor, while the 3.9 Dakota one's do, in addition to differences in where the vent is.
The thing that confuses me is, Clair made it sound like there are no provisions for mounting a starter, while I see bosses there. I suspect they aren't tapped and are oversized, but there is still a flange and holes. He also said it wasn't deep enough, but that could be fix with a dremel or something. Is it not possible that there is enough meat there to use the holes and bolt up a standard starter? Maybe a helicoil or something would bring it down to the right sizes, or build a plate that has studs or something that fits on from the back side? Oh wait, I'm assuming the bolt pattern would be the same, aren't I.
I'd sure like to see those picture Clair sent you, Greg. I'd be willing to put them on my photobucket account and link them here, if there were no issues.
Here is the thread I found it in.
Also, I noticed that the above pictured one doesn't have a slot for the crank sensor, while the 3.9 Dakota one's do, in addition to differences in where the vent is.
The thing that confuses me is, Clair made it sound like there are no provisions for mounting a starter, while I see bosses there. I suspect they aren't tapped and are oversized, but there is still a flange and holes. He also said it wasn't deep enough, but that could be fix with a dremel or something. Is it not possible that there is enough meat there to use the holes and bolt up a standard starter? Maybe a helicoil or something would bring it down to the right sizes, or build a plate that has studs or something that fits on from the back side? Oh wait, I'm assuming the bolt pattern would be the same, aren't I.
I'd sure like to see those picture Clair sent you, Greg. I'd be willing to put them on my photobucket account and link them here, if there were no issues.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Compared pictures of a Liberty starter to a Dakota one on RockAuto, and I don't think things will line up. Darn.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Here's the pictures Greg has:
MoparPowa
Well-Known Member
Here's the pictures Greg has:
Guilty as charged! I'm glad to be wrong either way, more options are a good thing... From what I remember, Clair's post said that the bellhousing had no provision for mounting the starter because it used a metal plate. I've seen similar plates that go between the engine and the bellhousing before on scattershields. I'm not sure if it's a similar situation or what it is, I've obviously never seen one. It would be awesome if we could get him to chip in on the discussion. However, currently the 4.7L may offer the option of using a factory flywheel (11"/143-tooth) that matches the 5.7 crank bolt pattern with the 3.9L bellhousing. That is if it isn't a dual mass flywheel... I'm not sure of any factory options in the 10.5" range.
Jeez guys, I must be driving you crazy with this stuff. I'm sorry I'm not keeping good track of this information, I hate repeating myself, I'm sure nobody else enjoys it. As Greg stated here, the 3.7L flywheel may be a 10.5" candidate just like the 4.7L is an 11" candidate. Still searching for information on their actual style (hopefully NOT dual mass).
72BBSwinger
Well-Known Member
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