Flywheel questions...

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MoparPowa

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Can anyone tell me the specs on the 5.7 hemi flywheel? Is it 11" 143-tooth but uses a 10.5" clutch? Any ideas if this could work with an MA5 transmission bolted behind the hemi using the dakota 3.9L bellhousing? I assume I'd of course have to use a chevy splined clutch disk.
 
Whatever was used in that bellhousing is what you want. You can get 143 and 130 both.
 
You need to know what diameter the bellhousing uses because that is what determines flywheel size, not the engine. You can get Gen III Hemi 8 bolt flywheels in 130 and 143 tooth, 10.5" or 11", if the 3.9 5 spd used neither, then youre screwed.
 
72BBSwinger said:
You need to know what diameter the bellhousing uses because that is what determines flywheel size, not the engine. You can get Gen III Hemi 8 bolt flywheels in 130 and 143 tooth, 10.5" or 11", if the 3.9 5 spd used neither, then youre screwed.
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I guess I'm not being clear in explanation I suppose... I'm aware I have to use a flywheel that matches the intended diameter of the bellhousing so that the starter will engage the ring gear. The 3.9L Dakota bellhousing that can mount the MA5 transmission to the 5.7 hemi used a 143 tooth 11 inch flywheel that was odd in that it still used a 10.5" clutch. I was trying to figure out if the stock flywheel that comes on the 5.7 hemi is indeed 143 tooth/11 inch and what clutch size it uses, etc. etc. etc. The hemi uses a different bolt pattern to mount the flywheel to the crank, otherwise I could just use the original 3.9L flywheel. As to buying an aftermarket flywheel, that is always an option but if I can use something already available in a junk yard for much cheaper why pay that much?
 
The manual trans car flywheels are funky thick and are designed for a Sachs dual disc. Look up a flywheel for a 2005 Ram 2500 5.7/5spd. truck and see what the tooth count is. After that just get the appropriate diameter clutch with spline count for your trans. Hopefully the truck flywheel will work.
 
72BBSwinger said:
The manual trans car flywheels are funky thick and are designed for a Sachs dual disc. Look up a flywheel for a 2005 Ram 2500 5.7/5spd. truck and see what the tooth count is. After that just get the appropriate diameter clutch with spline count for your trans. Hopefully the truck flywheel will work.
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Based on this [ame="http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Mopar-Clutch-Flywheel-53022042AA-143-tooth-Ram-250-hemi-etc-/221232795085?nma=true&si=0AaGzOJ9S0kUlEY%252FY2mLPlpCtu4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]listing[/ame], I assume it is indeed a 143 tooth flywheel but this seems to confirm that the flywheel is indeed even larger than a standard 11, possibly 12.5" as this references. I guess I should just stop being lazy and figure this stuff out seeing as the information is clearly out there... guess that puts me back at square one, looking for a 143 tooth 11" flywheel that will bolt onto the hemi crank for cheap...
 
I bought all new stuff back in '05-'06 for when I was going to go 5.7 / TKO500. I bought the '05 Ram 2500 bell and flywheel with Saches clutch / pressure plate. Both the bell and the flywheel were only about 60 bucks back then. You should try OEM new, you might be surprised.

Also, the bell was drilled for the Ram transmission (whatever that was) but there were additional bosses already there that just needed to be drilled and tapped for the Tremec and possibly others. I was real surprised about that.
 
Cuda SRT8 said:
I bought all new stuff back in '05-'06 for when I was going to go 5.7 / TKO500. I bought the '05 Ram 2500 bell and flywheel with Saches clutch / pressure plate. Both the bell and the flywheel were only about 60 bucks back then. You should try OEM new, you might be surprised.

Also, the bell was drilled for the Ram transmission (whatever that was) but there were additional bosses already there that just needed to be drilled and tapped for the Tremec and possibly others. I was real surprised about that.
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Unfortunately, as my post above yours concluded, I can't really make use of the stock flywheel. I have found this however, which isn't cheap but it's at least not outrageous like many of them seem to be advertised at. Sucks though that it uses a 11" clutch unlike the original 3.9L flywheel that had an 11" flywheel designed to use a 10.5" clutch which are much more common and lighter.
 
What are you planning to put this in? I think you'll have a pretty tough time fitting anything but a 130 tooth 10.5" cluch flywheel in any A body unless you are completely redoing the floorpans. I think the larger flywheels are often passenger side starter as well, so unless you're going coil overs and custom exhaust that's only more thing you'll have to work around.
 
Map63Vette said:
What are you planning to put this in? I think you'll have a pretty tough time fitting anything but a 130 tooth 10.5" cluch flywheel in any A body unless you are completely redoing the floorpans. I think the larger flywheels are often passenger side starter as well, so unless you're going coil overs and custom exhaust that's only more thing you'll have to work around.
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Yep ^^^ BUT the truck is driverside starter
1. I dont know tooth count of said truck flywheel
2. UhCoog and myself are using the starter from said 05 Ram with our 10.5 130 tooth flywheel with Quicktime Bells???
3. To OP the transmission doesnt care what clutch is in front of it as long as the spline count matches, the clutch diameter can be whatever the flywheel needs.
4. Having said that, what does this MA5 trans use for input shaft?
 
Map63Vette said:
What are you planning to put this in? I think you'll have a pretty tough time fitting anything but a 130 tooth 10.5" cluch flywheel in any A body unless you are completely redoing the floorpans. I think the larger flywheels are often passenger side starter as well, so unless you're going coil overs and custom exhaust that's only more thing you'll have to work around.
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See my build thread... I expect to have to modify the tunnel, although I'm hopeful it will be minimal as intend to use a stock 66 4-speed console... That's my goal at least. Exhaust would have to be custom regardless with the rear suspension, preferably 2.5" mandrel. The 3.9L bellhousing is drivers side starter, not that it really matters in my situation, but yeah... I have done my homework. Except these little questions... which I swear I did, the dog just ate it.
 

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I am using same bellhousing but with R154 (Supra turbo) behind 5.7. Member Buschi have same combo in his 6.1.
I bought a hemi 3G aftermarket flywheel 130 teeth from ebay, MP starter for 2005 5.7 RAM, then drilled and taped starter closer to the starter ring. Advance adapter clutch disc 10,5 with Toyota spline, MP hemi pressure plate. Been working nicely 4 years.
 
72BBSwinger said:
Yep ^^^ BUT the truck is driverside starter
1. I dont know tooth count of said truck flywheel
2. UhCoog and myself are using the starter from said 05 Ram with our 10.5 130 tooth flywheel with Quicktime Bells???
3. To OP the transmission doesnt care what clutch is in front of it as long as the spline count matches, the clutch diameter can be whatever the flywheel needs.
4. Having said that, what does this MA5 trans use for input shaft?
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I understand the clutch just has to match the diameter of the flywheel, I was just trying to use the smaller 10.5" clutch for the lighter weight and availability. The MA5 has a 26 spline 1.125" input shaft. The 3.9L bellhousing is driver side starter, used a 143 tooth 11" flywheel, and it was different in that it used a 10.5" clutch. The 3.7L bellhousing uses a 10.5" 130 tooth flywheel, passenger side starter and 10.5" clutch.

Jousi said:
I am using same bellhousing but with R154 (Supra turbo) behind 5.7. Member Buschi have same combo in his 6.1.
I bought a hemi 3G aftermarket flywheel 130 teeth from ebay, MP starter for 2005 5.7 RAM, then drilled and taped starter closer to the starter ring. Advance adapter clutch disc 10,5 with Toyota spline, MP hemi pressure plate. Been working nicely 4 years.
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Excellent, it's good to hear from somebody who has done a swap from the Aisin line of transmissions. I know of Buschi and also Clair as well as a couple other members I think that have done R154 swaps but not specifically anything about the MA5. Only MA5 swap I've actually found was onto an srt-4 engine(something I was deeply considering). No small blocks or big block chryslers, so I guess I'm kinda pioneering this. I would love to get Clair and Buschi to chip in any information they can in this thread or my other thread in the trans section. I know Clair mentioned that you can't use the 3.7L jeep bellhousing due to the starter not reaching the flywheel but I'm curious as to what flywheel that was. Would it be possible to make it work on the hemi engine with a different flywheel? I know the starter is passenger side but I'm not bothered by that considering I won't be using T-bars with my RMS suspension. I'd really like to find a setup that can just be all bolted together so that guys with small blocks and hemi's alike have a reasonable 5-speed option. It's supposed to shift really smooth and can handle a fair amount of power, it's cheap and uses parts you can get at any good parts store or junk yard. Just makes sense to me... Outside of the need to make a custom pilot bearing, most of the other parts seem to be there.
 
I wouldnt be worried about using the 3.7 bell and 10.5" stuff, my best guess is it would necessitate a 3.7 starter is all.
 
Very good project you have indeed. Here in Europe the only good, and somehow available (thus expensive of course) option from Aisin trannies was that R154,but those start to be under the rock by now, very popular on drifting.

Good to see how you proceed, best of luck to your project!
 
Jousi said:
Very good project you have indeed. Here in Europe the only good, and somehow available (thus expensive of course) option from Aisin trannies was that R154,but those start to be under the rock by now, very popular on drifting.

Good to see how you proceed, best of luck to your project!
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Thanks Jousi, you guys overseas doing these conversion and driving these classic are my heroes. We certainly can't complain about anything over here in the states with what you fella's go through.

As for the flywheel, I'm thinking 143-tooth 11" aluminum flywheel drilled for 10.5" clutch(seen some sites that sell them drilled for both clutch styles). As for the aluminum, I'm kind've leaning that way for a few different reasons I'll explain in my other thread in the transmission section.
 
Jousi said:
I am using same bellhousing but with R154 (Supra turbo) behind 5.7....then drilled and taped starter closer to the starter ring...
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Any more info on this? Were there bosses there to drill and tap or something? I don't remember any on mine, but I don't remember looking either.

I've planned to cut the starter pocket out and relocate it to match a 130T flywheel. I was going to drill a flat plate to match the pattern on 727 bellhousing and then use that to fix the starter pocket location before welding.

Really rather just drill some holes.
 
Man I thought a T56 was a big job, relocating the fricken starter pocket?? So you guys go to all this BS to use a "cheap" trans and at the end of the day you have a sub standard trans with a clutch that sucks or a mickey mouse starter setup or both. WTF is the point again?
 
DionR said:
Any more info on this? Were there bosses there to drill and tap or something? I don't remember any on mine, but I don't remember looking either.

I've planned to cut the starter pocket out and relocate it to match a 130T flywheel. I was going to drill a flat plate to match the pattern on 727 bellhousing and then use that to fix the starter pocket location before welding.

Really rather just drill some holes.
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I see no reason to go through all of that work when I can just use an 11" flywheel drilled for a 10.5" clutch.

72BBSwinger said:
Man I thought a T56 was a big job, relocating the fricken starter pocket?? So you guys go to all this BS to use a "cheap" trans and at the end of the day you have a sub standard trans with a clutch that sucks or a mickey mouse starter setup or both. WTF is the point again?
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You thought the T56 was a big job? There isn't really any thoughts about it, it IS a big job. As for "all this BS," I don't really see what's so complicated about the swap. Everything is there, the only thing that really needs to be custom built is the pilot bearing and that's not exactly complicated. What exactly is sub-standard about the MA5 transmission? What's mickey mouse about using the stock 5.7 hemi starter with the 3.9L bellhousing? I've never seen someone have such a chip on their shoulder about people being inventive and trying to use parts that are readily available, proven and cheap.
 
I get the whole " I did it my way" bit. I have never even heard of the MA5 until now, if it really is proven then good deal. I thought Dakotas used a NV3500 or something like that? I have a buddy with an 04 Cobra T56 that he wants gone too. Seems to me the Tremecs are twice as "readily available" as some junkyard Dakota trans. Different strokes for different folks I guess, everyone always seems to have plenty of $$$$ to do things right the second time. Good luck I will remove my chip from my shoulder sir.
 
72BBSwinger said:
I get the whole " I did it my way" bit. I have never even heard of the MA5 until now, if it really is proven then good deal. I thought Dakotas used a NV3500 or something like that? I have a buddy with an 04 Cobra T56 that he wants gone too. Seems to me the Tremecs are twice as "readily available" as some junkyard Dakota trans. Different strokes for different folks I guess, everyone always seems to have plenty of $$$$ to do things right the second time. Good luck I will remove my chip from my shoulder sir.
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It doesn't really have anything to do with "doing it my way," it's got a lot more to do with the amount of money it costs to do one these swaps. I just can't reasonably afford to do everything the way everyone else might think is ideal. I appreciate you weighing in and taking a stance, differing opinions breed conflict by nature and conflict leads to resolution. I believe in looking at an issue from every angle to find the best possible solution, everyone has a different perspective. I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm sure that's not your intention either. We're all here to learn last I checked.

I'm pretty sure the Dakota uses an AX15... I don't want to assume that you don't know the MA5 isn't from behind the Dakota but I guess I'm having a hard time reading you... The MA5 transmission is an Aisin transmission built to go behind the Colorado/Canyon/Isuzu trucks and also the Solstice in a slightly modified form(1.37 vs 1.51 3rd gear/remote shifter). In the Solstice many folks have made stout power with turbo's and even LS1 conversions, nary a mention of any transmission issues.

I don't have anything against somebody using a T56, a TR6060, a G-force straight cut racing tranny, etc. To me it's just what gets the job done... For me, I feel pretty confident the MA5 will get the job done. It's really all about what you're trying to accomplish. I don't disagree that Tremec is a well known company with some proven stuff, I just know that when I go to a junk yard I'm not gonna find a T-56 for $350... Much less a TKO since they were never factory. T-5's aren't exactly known for their stock strength.

I don't know how familiar you are with Buschi340 but that guy runs an R154 Toyota Supra trans behind a 6.1 hemi for years now and I'm relatively sure he beats on it on the autobahn. He blew up his engine after years of driving that car and to my knowledge still has no issues with his transmission. Now, the MA5 is, essentially, a modern upgraded R154 with triple cone synchros in 1/2, doubles in 3/4.

So, a 3.9L Dakota bellhousing with an 11" flywheel(drilled for either clutch), 10.5/11" clutch, stock hemi truck starter, hydraulic throwout bearing or slave depending on which way I decide to go... I guess I can't see where I lose, should drive just like a modern car.
 
Yep I assumed, and that pretty much sums it up on my part. I would also assume that an 11" 26 spline 1 1/8" GM clutch should be a workable option. I have mixed and matched a couple times before Mopar flywheels and GM clutch applications and the bolt patterns interchange fine. I believe pretty much any GM/Borg Warner/Passenger car used the clutch you need.
 
72BBSwinger said:
Yep I assumed, and that pretty much sums it up on my part. I would also assume that an 11" 26 spline 1 1/8" GM clutch should be a workable option. I have mixed and matched a couple times before Mopar flywheels and GM clutch applications and the bolt patterns interchange fine. I believe pretty much any GM/Borg Warner/Passenger car used the clutch you need.
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Yup, that's what I gathered as well. Should be very easy to get ahold of. So I wouldn't have to use a Mopar pressure plate correct, to match the bolt pattern of the flywheel? The GM pressure plates will match the Mopar flywheel? Then I'd just use the 10.5" GM clutch disk which seem to be endlessly available.
 
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