$ for $, hp for hp, How well does Mopar compare W/ GM's LS engine?

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greymouser7

greymouser7

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How competitive are we against the people who buy the late model muscle or the general enthusiast that buys his popular chevy or mustang?

Is the thought-out/built Mopar Smallblock or latest Gen Hemi competitive against the 383's, Modular 5.4, and LS motors out there?

I understand that Vehicle weight, rear gear ratio's, suspension setups, transmission builds, big/small block apple/oranges, turbos, blowers, nitrous, etc. all comes into play in performance-but barring all that how well do we do?
Does it take an R3 to beat an LSX setup?
Are Indy, Brodix, W-series heads necessary to compete with cnc'd AFR small block heads?
I am still in the beginning of the learning curve here (stuck in hole often over the past decade) and would like to learn the from the wisdom of the Dedicated/experienced Mopar racers. The magazines always seem to glorify the other two makes and neglect ours. I have not really seen any legitimate comparisons in this regard. Powerblock TV did some comparative builds but their 360 performance numbers on the dyno seemed abysmal. I can't remember if it was Carcraft or Popular Hotrodding that articulated on the three smallblock junkyard builds- and what their results were. I remember that those builds were on a budget, which seems to favor the belly button chevy crowd. Thanks for your time and any input.
 
This is a very good question and I'm not so sure I can answer it in total. The latest GM LS engines are really nice. The Ford mod motors are also nice. When I look at the HEMI, I lack info and the mags do not show case it to much. In part, I think it is due to the engine being slightly from a unpopular line and expensive with from what I am slowly finding out is a lack of parts and aftermarket supplier's. I guess that is nothing new.

The new generation engines, while they may be cheap from Junkyards since they are close to a dime a dozen, do require more expensive aftermarket parts if your going to that level of performance.

The aftermarket parts and computer parts (Not to mention dyno time) can be as cheap or as costly (Point of view) as a R3 block and ported Brodix heads.

For me, new GM/Ford engines are a wash in price vs. stepping up to serious MoPar parts to run. You'll pay hefty for a ported MoPar head vs. there cheaper head, then tune it yourself cheap as heck while they spend a grand per day on the dyno to figure out there technological nightmare.

The Chevy 383 isn't as bad *** as you think by the way. A 4 inch stroke 318 goes to 390 cubes and has better valve train and angles with an intake that will stand side by side if not better than there's. Vic Edelbrock even said the MoPar RPM was the best damn manifold for the small blocks. Period. Over the Chevy.

In the end, build what you always wanted to build and enjoy it to the fullest.
 
As I recall, Mopar Action compared the Magnum Heads to the Cheb's, and the Magnum trumped them.

If you build your motor to take advantage of superior Mopar engineering (Valves opening on center, cam ground for a superior lifter diameter, superior suspension), the Mope wins.
 
The LS motors are efficent out of the box,I give them that.What kills the LA is a really good flowing head that is affordable.The chev benefits from decades of circle track development motivated by a supply and demand situation.Otherwise, install a set of w2s,or w5s,advantage mopar(in my opinion.).
 
Abodybomber said:
The LS motors are efficent out of the box.
Click to expand...

IMO that is the big reason why people do LS swaps into anything and everything. Its hard to argue with an engine that can make 300-400hp out of the box, is dirt cheap, and will get decent mpg. The closest thing mopar has to fitting those requirements is the magnum, but the LS is a lot lighter and the MPG may not be as good.

As for $ to $, everyone knows its expensive to build a mopar engine. I believe i heard somewhere that old mopar car enthusiasts collectively make up 5% of the market for performance parts.

So there isnt a ton of wiggle room for lowering prices.
 
Not to mention modern computer aided fuel injection and overdrive units etc....
 
1) Cost
2) weight
3) lack of aftermarket parts.

Be nice if they could have made the new Hemi with an aluminum block.


Buggy guys run the LS over any other V8 for them 3 reasons. You will see a Ford V8 but not but 1 in 100. only ever seen one Mopar motor in a buggy and that was for some rich guy. Think it was the Hilton or some other $$$$ hotel guy. Had a Viper V10 n it :prayer:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=74882
They do have Hemi heads for the LS motors but I think most don't see the point. They cost way more han an LS head and I don't think make much more if any HP.
 

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Be nice if they could have made the new Hemi with an aluminum block.
Click to expand...

Hum, thought you could get them in aluminum (Blocks, Gen 3's). Just not in a car though, right?
 
Burntorange70 said:
Be nice if they could have made the new Hemi with an aluminum block.
Click to expand...
I just read about this yesterday,

P5155513
Mopar's newest crate engine pays homage to its legendary roots
in this all new aluminum Gen III Hemi. At 540 horsepower and
530 ft.-lbs. of torque (SAEJ1349), this Hemi is a real beast.​

Features:
· 426 cubic-inches in a HEMI Gen III Siamese-Bore Block (P5155507)
· All Aluminum Cylinder Heads and Engine Block (4.0" Stroke X 4.125" Bore)
· Over 500 Horsepower and 500 lb-ft Torque
· Forged Crankshaft, Connecting Rods and Pistons
· 8620 HR billet steel main caps with 6-bolt (# 2/3/4) and 4-bolt (# 1/5) caps to
beef-up the bottom end for severe performance applications
· All HEMI Gen III dress items fit (front cover, oil pan, oil filter mounting, Front
End Accessory Drive (FEAD) etc.)​
· Includes attachments for a front motor plate
 
itate said:
I just read about this yesterday,

P5155513
Mopar's newest crate engine pays homage to its legendary roots
in this all new aluminum Gen III Hemi. At 540 horsepower and
530 ft.-lbs. of torque (SAEJ1349), this Hemi is a real beast.​

Features:
· 426 cubic-inches in a HEMI Gen III Siamese-Bore Block (P5155507)
· All Aluminum Cylinder Heads and Engine Block (4.0" Stroke X 4.125" Bore)
· Over 500 Horsepower and 500 lb-ft Torque
· Forged Crankshaft, Connecting Rods and Pistons
· 8620 HR billet steel main caps with 6-bolt (# 2/3/4) and 4-bolt (# 1/5) caps to
beef-up the bottom end for severe performance applications
· All HEMI Gen III dress items fit (front cover, oil pan, oil filter mounting, Front
End Accessory Drive (FEAD) etc.)​
· Includes attachments for a front motor plate
Click to expand...

That's really cool, but it still probably costs like 5 times the price of the LS. ](*,)
 
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_chrysler_hemi_57_liter_345ci_engine_review/index.html

This should help explain everything. Having worked a *lot* on the LS motors, I can tell you, that while they do make good power out of the box, they don't necessarily make more than the new Hemi's.

I also have major issues with the somewhat fragile valve train design on the LS engines, and the cam sensor setup they changed three times through the life of the LS.

The LS has ONE advantage over the Hemi. It's a GM product, and therefore has massive instant aftermarket support. That's literally the only advantage I can think of. The Hemi has a better designed bottom end, better designed intake, better valve train, and much, much better head design.
 
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