Frame Rail Replacement

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70dart

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Does anyone have instructions for leveling car after installing frame rail caps. Or has anyone replaced the rails? That Is what I am attempting to do, any advice on how to keep it straight and true, I want to be able to drag with it and dont really want any unexpected surprises if you know what I mean. Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks :help:
 
ikept a jack underneathe the bumper to keep the body from sagging..do one side at a timeI assume your trunkpan is also rotted so no big deal cut it out have a coupla jacks ready to keep it all lined up and weld er in there. I ended up fabbing most of my stuff just because I have a friend in the fabricating buisiness. The important part with frame work is to take your time fit fit and fit again, then MIG it in don't attempt to stick it unless yo have real thin rod and run like the wind!
 
Thanks for the info 72dustyer!
You are correct the trunk floor is gone, basically non-existant and the frame rails are rotted off about halfway back on the wheel well so there isn't any bumper on it right now. Or when you suggested the jack under the bumper were you referring to the front end? I have to replace them as well as they seem weak. I will be fabbing mine too as they are pricey and caps which are pricey too wouldn't work for this. I have a wire feed to weld them in with, and have a sheet of 1/8 steel, stick welder and a pattern to go by to make them plus a frame chart. Hopefully all goes well!! :newb:
 
Done this more than I care to remember. I used 6 jacks in all, at all stress points, from rear seat to the extreme rear.
 
you can not level or straighten the chassis AFTER they are welded in ...once the welding is done they are not going to move, make sure you block up the car in all of the stress points and check the measurements against your frame chart. i also like to put a couple X braces in to keep the welding heat from pulling the body out of square. I always double check the measurements after tacking in the repair pieces ,before I weld them in solid.... it is a lot of work ,take your time ,always measure twice , and it will come out fine...good luck.
 
Many thanks for all of the pointers guys, much appreciated! 68gts340, these x braces you are referring to do you weld these in the door openings and across the inner fenders?
 
i would put them in the inner fenders ...x from side to side plus from the firewall to the front , possably to the core support or k frame if it is in the car, back to the cowl or top of the inners ... the idea here is to get it right first, then tack weld your new pieces then re check the numbers ,then weld it up, remember , the more you weld in one spot the more heat will build up, try to skip around making 1 - 2 inck welds at a time , try not to over heat any one area, make sure you have clean metal to weld , no paint no rust, and most of all no undercoating.... you can very carefully cool the welds with a damp cloth , but let the weld cool a little bit first, cooling to fast will make the weld brittle.... just use your head and take your time , its not really hard ,just time consuming.... one last thing.... if you hear a loud " crack " or "pop " it is most likley one of the temporary braces has broke loose... stop and repair it asap... . there is no such thing as to many braces ...only to few.... good luck if you need more help feel free to ask.... Ron
 
Thanks so much for all of the info, what about for replacing the back rails. Also do all of the new pans have to be in first or are there other attachment points for all rails besides the pans, will 1/8 metel be strong enough for these. Thanks once again for instructions, I am glad to find someone so knowledgable on the subject.
 
I was wondering since I have never have to deal with this until now and my Dart. What about the frame caps that they say just slide over the exisiting frame? Do you still have to put in the braces and supports? I was major rust that has eaten away at the passenger side front frame rail and was wondering would the frame cap from Auto Rust Technicans do the job. Also since I have heard all of this bad stuff about AAR Quality Fiberglass and Indy is Auto Rust Technicans a place I can trust? Thank you all. Remember MOPAR OR NO CAR!
 
the braces and supports are temporary. and yes you should put them in, even properly braced we have had some movement in our previous projects, heat does strange things to metal, brace the hell out of every thing you weld , the welding process draws the metal by nature, keep the heat at a minimum and go slowly.. as far as the parts go , i would personally rather use O.E.M. parts or good used no rust parts, all of the aftermarket stuff is lighter guage metal... well maybe not all but most is.
 
What about floor pans should they be in before the new frame rails, or are there other mounting points that will allow the rails to be installed without the pans in? Any pointers on this would help alot, thanks for the info everyone it has been very helpfull so far!! :book:
 
I would tack all of the pieces in , the floor pans first , then the rails, recheck the #s , check the rails for being square to each other and to a common fixed point on the chassis, when you are sure everything is where it should be then start the welding, 1/8 inch metal should be fine, one more thought... what are you future plans for the car ? any big tires on the rear? drag racing ? road racing?.... these questions should be adressed now, and make any nessary mods to the rear at this time. this would be an excellent time to back half the car if that is the direction you are going.or moving the springs in for bigger tires, plan ahead so you dont have to do anything twice....I would put in a pair of subframe connectors no matter what, even a stock car will benifit from the connectors... good luck ,you have a lot of work ahead, just remember to measure twice , make sure its right before you start welding. Ron
 
68gts340 is right about bracing the car. One thing I would also do is remove as much unnecessary weight as possible. Obvisouly you don't want have the wheels on. If you doing a total resto then I would remove the doors and hood and decklid.

One thing I would stay away from are the frame rail caps. You are capping rust and the only way to remove rust it to cut it out. So if you are capping it then you are leaving the rust there. Find a donor and get the rails off that. I can't empisize enough to have the welding area clean. You don't want a dirty weld and a year later or sooner have the weld start splitting. The best thing to do it tack weld the rail in and then short bursts with the welder, switch from on side or the frame rail to the other to reduce heat. Heat is a killer!

I never understood it when I see these guys on TV building these custom choppers and build these gas tanks and fenders and using a tig welder and running a continous weld. I never used a tig welder before but I know welding produces a lot of heat and then you see them running a grinder on them non stop to get rid of the welds?!?!?! Of course most of the time they never show it when the body man/painter put a ton of body filler on them to straighten them out.
 
Thanks 68gts340 and blackice,
I appreciate you valuable insight on this project. I do plan on larger tires for the rear as it will see street and strip duty(when funds permit). Right now my plans are to move the springs into the frame and mini tub or tub for a decent slick. My idea was to fabricate the spring relocation setup and incorporate that into the frame rails before installation.

I also planned to fab a strong set of sub frame connectors keep body twist to a minimum, as it is my plan to create a strong 340 stroker hopefully with H.P. around the 500 range depending on what I end up using for a block original or a reproduction. thanks guys any thoughts
 
Here is another thought, S & W race cars makes many frame rail kits ,and has the patterns for many more, it may be easier to call them and see if they have the pattern for your rear rails, a few years ago I put a mini tub kit in a nova and they had the rails and subframe connectors all in one piece, they actually ran all the way to the front subframe, that really made for a very rigid setup. I dont know if they have this type for your car , but if they do it is a very strong setup, well worth a phone call. they also have a full range of chassis parts,from full chassis cars to just simple gussets for your roll cage. they have always taken the time to help me out and really know their stuff....they are located in spring city Pa. U.S.A. their info and tech phone # is,,,,,610-948-7303... web site is......swracecars.com..... i have not called them in the last 3-4 years , so i hope the # is still good. I have used many of their parts for many years and aways have got good parts and great service.. .. i just found a old catalog from them, they do offer rear rails for an A body set up for leaf springs and these rails use the stock floors and trunk panel locations, the price 5 years ago was just under 2 hundred bucks. .... hope this info is usefull... Ron
 
Thanks 68gts340,

I appreciate the info, I have heard of them as well and have heard good stuff about them. Money is my issue right now that is why I was looking at fabricating them as I have the metal and I do have a pattern. But if things change for me, they could be a possibility! Does anyone know of any canadian distributors that sell these rails. Also does anyone know of a canadian distributor that handles the floor and trunk pans at a decent price besides Ultimate Car Performance?

I have see some full length pans for other cars, such as bowties, from front to rear. Has anyone seen these for Dodge products? 70 Darts inparticular. Thanks for all the info in this thread so far guys it has been a great help :notworth:
 
You may want to try NationalMoparts.com They have lots of A-body stuff and I have delt with them. They were very courteous and prompt sending the stuff I ordered.

Jack
 
blackace said:
I never understood it when I see these guys on TV building these custom choppers and build these gas tanks and fenders and using a tig welder and running a continous weld. I never used a tig welder before but I know welding produces a lot of heat and then you see them running a grinder on them non stop to get rid of the welds?!?!?! Of course most of the time they never show it when the body man/painter put a ton of body filler on them to straighten them out.
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i can´t say that i am realy good att TIG welding but i know some stuff about it and i have been doing some Tig welding and one of the nice things about it is that you dont heat such a big area as you do with a MIG welder and that realy helps things stay straight most of the TIG welding i do is to stainless steel exhaust pipes and i always spotweld it at four or more points with the TIG welder first before i do the long continuing seam that also realy helps keeping things straight, if those guys on TV have to do alot of grinding after TIG welding they realy should practice more welding since one of the realy nice reasons to TIGweld is the fact that you can make aolmost invicible welds without any grinding at all ;) TIG welding is also the best way in my eyes to weld stainless steel because there is no contamination to the metal from other substanses or metals that can give you problems later...
 
I have looked all over for full length floor panels, and so for no luck in finding any, if you really want or need the full unit ,try texas acres , they are here on the web and located in texas, they offer any body part and will cut it out your way if requested. not cheap tho .i was quoted 800 $ for a full floor panel, plus shipping.... to much for something that can be repaired in sections for much less.....and that didnt include the trunk.....just from firewall to the rear seat .. ... but if you want o.e.m . panels they may be of help....and they are claiming rust free.
 
Thanks a Bunch for all of the info guys I should have enough to go on now. If only I could get these damn work commitments out of may way for a while(exams) I could start me mopar :book: I'll let you all know how it goes when I get at it. By the way Should I use a stick or wire feed welder on this. I am thinking wire feed or will it not give me enough penetration? Once again thanks a million guys greatly appreciated :notworth:
 
I would use the wire feed welder, I use .023 wire size for the sheet metal and 030 wire for everything else, do not use the gas less wire ( it is called innershield ),it is crap, I use a mixed gas called C-25... make sure the polarity is correct for the wire that you use. when you weld two pices of heavy guage metal together be sure to bevel the edges before welding , this will make for a much stronger weld. good luck ! and keep everyone posted on progress.....
 
What if my wire feed welder is non gas, what would be the best route to take then? I need this thing stuck together really good, I hate surprises especially when I am in the triple digits :eek:ops:
 
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