From a Mopar style ignition box mfg.

[canyncarvr]

Regarding TO-220's being used in 'looks like' newer Mopar replacement ignition boxes, I received this statement:

Thank you for sharing your detailed feedback. I understand your concerns regarding the appearance and transistor type of the unit. While the physical appearance may differ slightly from the photos in the listing, the unit you received is the correct item according to the manufacturer's specifications. We appreciate your observations and understand your concerns about durability. If you notice any functional issues with the unit, please let us know, and we’ll be happy to assist you further. Thank you for your understanding.

Sure. TO-220s work just fine in some circuits. As a replacement for a TO-3? Nah.

 

[MadScientistMat]

It depends on the TO-220. When I worked at DIYAutotune, the ST VB921 transistors were easy to cook if you used too much dwell. The BIP373s from Bosch were much harder to kill even if seriously abused; they sold in five figure quantities and we might have had fewer than 30 sent in for replacement including non warranty repairs.

It does look like Rochester Electronics has brought back high voltage TO-3 transistors recently - although they are generally older designs.

 

[Bewy]

The life & performance of power transistors will depend on whether the heat sink is adequate for the job, irrespective of the transistor shape.

 

[RustyRatRod]

It depends on the TO-220. When I worked at DIYAutotune, the ST VB921 transistors were easy to cook if you used too much dwell. The BIP373s from Bosch were much harder to kill even if seriously abused; they sold in five figure quantities and we might have had fewer than 30 sent in for replacement including non warranty repairs.

It does look like Rochester Electronics has brought back high voltage TO-3 transistors recently - although they are generally older designs.

So here's my question. Everybody raves about the transistorized regulators for the instrument cluster. So why are the very similar transistors (the TO-220) pieces of crap? I've had an ignition box with one in it in Vixen about five years not without a hiccup.

 

[canyncarvr]

Someone said TO-220s are pieces of crap? I missed that.

A semiconductor in a TO-220 case has limitations that come with that fitment. On the top of that list of limitations is current carrying capability and, as a side-effect, the ability to sink heat. It is well beyond basic reason to expect an epoxy/plastic case of 'x' size to carry the current and dissipate resulting heat the same as a metal cased '10x' (just a number..call it bigger) larger package.

Your 'Vixen' likely has nice tires, well suited to their application. Does that mean they are also a good fit for a 10,000HP AA/Fuel rig?

Do instrument clusters do anything with power (Mopar-type amp gauges not included) to the extent as does an ignition control module?

That would be a, 'No.'

 

[RustyRatRod]

Someone said TO-220s are pieces of crap? I missed that.

A semiconductor in a TO-220 case has limitations that come with that fitment. On the top of that list of limitations is current carrying capability and, as a side-effect, the ability to sink heat. It is well beyond basic reason to expect an epoxy/plastic case of 'x' size to carry the current and dissipate resulting heat the same as a metal cased '10x' (just a number..call it bigger) larger cased element.

Your 'Vixen' likely has nice tires, well suited to their application. Does that mean they are also a good fit for a 10,000HP AA/Fuel rig?

Do instrument clusters do anything with power (Mopar-type amp gauges not included) to the extent as does an ignition control module?

That would be a, 'No.'

Yeah lots of the guys here. Mine has been fine for a long time.

 

[4spdragtop]

Who was the reply from?

Regarding TO-220's being used in 'looks like' newer Mopar replacement ignition boxes, I received this statement:



Sure. TO-220s work just fine in some circuits. As a replacement for a TO-3? Nah.

 

[Bewy]

To me, it is not about the external shape of the transistor. It is about it's operating characteristics & how well it is made. The TO-220 is the result of evolution, design, innovation & engineering improvements over the bulky TO-3.

 

[RustyRatRod]

To me, it is not about the external shape of the transistor. It is about it's operating characteristics & how well it is made. The TO-220 is the result of evolution, design, innovation & engineering improvements over the bulky TO-3.

I agree. If the TO-220 was the junk some guys around here say it is, we'd see a huge failure amount. We don't.

 

[canyncarvr]

Who was the reply from?

It's likely bad form to name the person/entity without their permission.

The part came from Amazon. Amazon said it was proffered by 'Standard Motor Products', although the same page listed a different name as the retailer. I ASKED if the part was indeed from SMP. I was assured it was. I figured I had an out if the part turned out to be NOT what my other LX-101s are...real TO-3s complete with print and logos that match. Yep..those could be counterfeit, too, but it's something in my favor.

Listing is here:

Amazon.com: Standard Motor Products LX-101 Ignition Control Unit : Automotive

Buy Standard Motor Products LX-101 Ignition Control Unit: Control Units - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

All of this is missing the point. I found it downright highlarious that the seller said the part was up to the mfg's specs. That is mindless blather. Who the hell cares what the 'specs' are of the outfit that MADE the cheapo crappo part?

That TO-220s might work in the circuit has not a single thing to do with it. That devices in a TO-220 case can work has also not a single thing to do with it.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Ok, enough of this nonsense. Goodbye.

 

[4spdragtop]

All I was trying to figure out whose parts we are talking about.
Good/bad, name them. No need for permission, IF that was the case all reviews would be rosy, and that ain't so.
All this **** is above my paygrade anyway.
All I can ad is I have a SMP LX101 I bought a few years ago that ran/runs great best I can tell, even tho a supposed guru said my ecu is junk due to the transistor lol.

It's likely bad form to name the person/entity without their permission.

The part came from Amazon. Amazon said it was proffered by 'Standard Motor Products', although the same page listed a different name as the retailer. I ASKED if the part was indeed from SMP. I was assured it was. I figured I had an out if the part turned out to be NOT what my other LX-101s are...real TO-3s complete with print and logos that match. Yep..those could be counterfeit, too, but it's something in my favor.

Listing is here:

http://[URL]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009F7H3RC?tag=fabo03-20

[/URL]

All of this is missing the point. I found it downright highlarious that the seller said the part was up to the mfg's specs. That is mindless blather. Who the hell cares what the 'specs' are of the outfit that MADE the cheapo crappo part?

That TO-220s might work in the circuit has not a single thing to do with it. That devices in a TO-220 case can work has also not a single thing to do with it.

 

[MadScientistMat]

First, if I were designing an ignition module completely from scratch, I would design it around the latest transistors meant to drive coils. Take a look at this example. 31 amps hot, 46 amps cold, 390 volts. It doesn't come in a TO-3 package, and you aren't going to find a TO-3 with that sort of current capacity.

Second, it's entirely possible you have a counterfeit. Fulfillment by Amazon has problems. If you have several people saying they are selling Standard LX101s, Amazon will dump them all in one box unless something is really, really blatantly wrong. And they won't investigate unless someone complains. So if you have five good sellers and one crook who bought fakes on Alibaba, you have no idea what you will get even if you ask for one from a good seller.

Last, it's possible Standard Motor Products changed their design. They could have kept making them in house but redesigned it after TO-3s because hard to source. Or they could be buying "white label" parts from China too.

 

[Dave999]

yeah id guess they use whatever they can buy in bulk reliably that has same or better specification than the original...much like what chrysler would do...

i like vintage wire wound components and in-era vacuum tubes something from 56- to mid late 60s decent branded tubes GE sylvania philips Mullard GEC

but the rest has generally improved...old electrolytic capacitors no... like buying 25 year old tyres...look perfect but they aint quite right

 

[canyncarvr]

A semi-conductor housed in a TO-220 case simply can not do 'the same job' as one mounted in a TO-3 case.

I'll make you a burger the size of a thimble...and one a two-handed 1/3 of a pound on a plate. Hey! The burger the size of the thimble is Prime grade

 

[canyncarvr]

First, if I were designing an ignition module completely from scratch, I would design it around the latest transistors meant to drive coils. Take a look at this example. 31 amps hot, 46 amps cold, 390 volts. It doesn't come in a TO-3 package, and you aren't going to find a TO-3 with that sort of current capacity.

Second, it's entirely possible you have a counterfeit. Fulfillment by Amazon has problems. If you have several people saying they are selling Standard LX101s, Amazon will dump them all in one box unless something is really, really blatantly wrong. And they won't investigate unless someone complains. So if you have five good sellers and one crook who bought fakes on Alibaba, you have no idea what you will get even if you ask for one from a good seller.

Last, it's possible Standard Motor Products changed their design. They could have kept making them in house but redesigned it after TO-3s because hard to source. Or they could be buying "white label" parts from China too.

30A and 250W of heat dissipation is impressive for that package. Thanks for that data sheet! I do find it curious that there are no sink requirements for that kind of heat. I doubt it (that listed heat elimination) is going to happen with a TO-220 case sticking up into the 'general area' of a TO-3 looking canister with no mechanical attachment. Although, I HAVE seen some of THAT, too.

The point of this post. 1. Standard LX-101s used to use a TO-3. I have a couple of them. The transistors are labeled with seeming valid labels (that doesn't make them 'good' as anyone that has worked on stereo equipment and looking for Toshiba replacements can certainly vouch for). TI is one commonly used. 2. The part listed for sale shows a TO-3. That is not what was sold. 3. ...and the main part: I do not recall ever reading a defense of the use of a TO-220 cased component from a vendor. THAT was quite illustrative of a failed process, listing mfg. specs (NOT original equipment specs!) as having some import.

This post was not to bash TO-220 package as, period, insufficient. The case is fine in its proper place and when properly electrically AND mechanically put together. I do not dispute those instances may exist. I don't know that they do...or don't. Mat's posted datasheet certainly indicates power (amperage and wattage) possibilities for the form factor. (There has to be some 'sinkage' requirement in there SOMEwhere.)

The main point was the meaningless excuse I got from the seller. It was laughable. That is why I posted it. They might as well put a D-Class amplifier in an advertised A/B-Class product and tell me, 'It's better!'. dit-dot-'d-dit-dit-dot-dit....no.

 

[Mike69cuda]

Keep in mind that you are sort of comparing apples and oranges with a 50 year difference in electronics.

Semiconductors dissipate a small amount of energy when turned on, and no energy when turned off. Most of the energy is dissipated (and heat generated) during switching when the device is in the linear mode.

Switching speed of semiconductors has dramatically increased in the last 50 years. As the switching speed increases, the time in linear mode decreases, and so does the heat generated. This is why cell phones now fit in the palm of your hand instead of a shoe box size. Smaller devices can switch larger currents and heat sinks can be much smaller.

The reason you see smaller packages like T0-220s is that few applications actually need a T0-3 size anymore. It is not really a case of better or worse, it is apples & oranges. A $19 auto zone box now is probably better that the fanciest race box in the 70’s, not withstanding quality issues.

 

[bee1971]

And there lies the problem - That $19 Auto Zone box is now a $59.99 Auto Zone Duralast ignition box that withstands many quality issues like so many others