I have a 1976 Dodge Dart swinger two door hard top, with a slant six and 4-speed manual. It had been sitting in the drive way for a while until i recently decided to start driving it again. I noticed the front wheels have excessive positive camber. So much that when driving, the tires squeal. I thought maybe it was due to faulty ball joints so i replaced both the upper and lower, and all the tie rod ends on the steering linkage. The problem is still there. What else could it be? Torsion bar? control arm? anti-sway bar? Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Front suspension Issues on 1976 Dart
- Thread starter bandt77
- Start date
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Have you taken it for an alignment yet?
75dodgedart
Well-Known Member
Hello, (Dont know if you got the problem solved yet)
San Diego over here, been in your same situation, THE EXACT SAME- Let me tell you this I am new to this all and I have been learning from Mechanics and Help from WIldandCrazyGuy(ON THIS FORUM) and other various users on this forum THANK YOU, you wanna check all the upper and lower control arm bushing's (left and right), your strut rod bushing's, k members for cracks and such, your torsion bar'S, and the sway bar bushings plus the sway bar linkage, after you get all that replaced take it in for an alignment and you should be set and back on the road,
San Diego over here, been in your same situation, THE EXACT SAME- Let me tell you this I am new to this all and I have been learning from Mechanics and Help from WIldandCrazyGuy(ON THIS FORUM) and other various users on this forum THANK YOU, you wanna check all the upper and lower control arm bushing's (left and right), your strut rod bushing's, k members for cracks and such, your torsion bar'S, and the sway bar bushings plus the sway bar linkage, after you get all that replaced take it in for an alignment and you should be set and back on the road,
ronald55555
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What position is the eccentric bolt/bushing adjusted at on the upper control arms? Have you already rotated them all the way inwards?
The eccentric is what is rotated to change the alignment on your wheels. It is located where the upper control arms attach to the mounting ears. You loosen the nuts up and rotate the head of the bolt until the wheels are close to being straight up and down. You mentioned that you changed the tie rod ends. They are set so that your wheels aren't pigeon toed looking. Sorry I'm not an alignment specialist but you need to have it close so you can get it to the shop and let the experienced tech's take care of it.
Oh yeah that makes sense. well im currently replacing the lower control arm bushings to take possibilities out of the question. but that brings me to another question, i have the lower control arm out, but im not sure exactly what im supposed to press out. is it just the pivot shaft that comes out? ive put some pictures up as well, any help is greatly appreciated
75dodgedart
Well-Known Member
Got to take it to a machine shop(DON'T KNOW OF ANY OLD SCHOOL WAYS), and have them press it out and press it back in, call round town and ask for quotes, go get some moog bushings, cost me $25 to have the shop press out and press in the new one, check for k member cracks too. (thats where the lca shaft goes thru) , I AM GOING THRU THE SAME ISSUES AS YOU, ALMOST RESOLVED THEM ALL. LETS SEE SOME PICS OF THE WHIP 
pettybludart
Well-Known Member
Haha your LCA bushings look the same as mine(they,re being done as we speak).By the looks of your pics,your tires are out at the top.You need to turn the eccentric bolds to pull it in some.Good luck.
View attachment 66 Dart project Nov2010 010.jpg
View attachment 66 Dart project Nov2010 010.jpg
This would be a good time to switch from rubber bushings to polyeurathane. They don't wear out and your car will handle a whole lot better.
aDODGEmann
Active Member
Another thing, on reassembly just tighten the pivot pin nut enough to take the end play out. Once the car is back on the ground then tighten the pivot pin nut. This way the new rubber bushing won't be twisted at ride height and will last much longer. All rubber bushings in the suspension should be done this way...
Snake
Mopar Nut
Dont forget that tire tilted out at the top is + camber a good thing.
but isn't there such a thing as excessive camber? because i couldn't even drive the car because the tires felt like they were dragging and squealing.
But thanks for all the advice, I had one hell of a semester so i haven't had time to work on this but i just removed the passenger lower control arm now and will keep you posted on the progress, oh and ill get those pictures of the car up soon to
But thanks for all the advice, I had one hell of a semester so i haven't had time to work on this but i just removed the passenger lower control arm now and will keep you posted on the progress, oh and ill get those pictures of the car up soon to
Positive camber IS NOT a good thing!!! And even it it was, there's way too much of it on that car.
A small amount of positive camber was initially specified for these cars because of the crappy original tires. Even reproduction "period" tires are better than this now, and if you're running modern tires you should have 0 or - camber. But I'll get to that later.
The tire noise is probably NOT the camber on the wheels, most autocross or road race cars frequently run as much as -3 degrees of camber without any noise. More than likely its the toe angle, which is adjusted with your tie rods. Point the wheels straight ahead, and look at the car directly from the front about 5 or 6 feet out. If both tires aren't pointing exactly straight ahead, the toe is the problem. Adjust the tie rods until the tires appear to be pointed straight ahead, and then have it aligned! Typically you want to have a little toe in, but we're only talking about 1/16th of an inch. Based on the pictures (although its hard to tell from the angle of the pictures), it looks to me like your toe is not set correctly.
Now, the + camber shown in the picture is WAAAAY too much. In order to see the camber like that you'd have to be running over 1 degree, based on the pictures I'd say the driver's side wheel is probably getting close to +2 degrees of camber.
You can loosen up the nuts on the eccentric bolts and rotate them in to pull the tops of the tires in. If you watch the upper control arm as you adjust the eccentric bolt, you should see it moving. You'll want to adjust it so the upper control arm is as far inboard as you can get it. Then take it to get aligned!
Now, onto camber.
If you want your car to actually handle well, NEGATIVE camber is what you need (tires tipped in at the top). For a street car you probably want between 0 and -.5 degrees. Autocross and road racing cars run as much as -3 degrees camber, but on the street that'll eat your tires. I've found that I can get away with about -1.0 degree of camber before the wear pattern really takes a hit.
Currently my Challenger is set up with -.7 degrees of camber, +4.0 degrees caster, and 1/16" of toe in. This is a huge improvement over the stock alignment specs. I like to run a little extra - camber, but I also drive a decent amount on mountain/winding roads at a pretty spirited pace.
As for an example of negative camber, look at the front wheels of this 'Cuda. This is for Pike's Peak, and my guess would be around -3 degrees of camber, maybe more. Pretty extreme. But its also a pretty extreme course.
If you want your car to actually handle well, NEGATIVE camber is what you need (tires tipped in at the top). For a street car you probably want between 0 and -.5 degrees. Autocross and road racing cars run as much as -3 degrees camber, but on the street that'll eat your tires. I've found that I can get away with about -1.0 degree of camber before the wear pattern really takes a hit.
Currently my Challenger is set up with -.7 degrees of camber, +4.0 degrees caster, and 1/16" of toe in. This is a huge improvement over the stock alignment specs. I like to run a little extra - camber, but I also drive a decent amount on mountain/winding roads at a pretty spirited pace.
As for an example of negative camber, look at the front wheels of this 'Cuda. This is for Pike's Peak, and my guess would be around -3 degrees of camber, maybe more. Pretty extreme. But its also a pretty extreme course.
Sedanman
67-9 Valiant specialist
Did you notice if the frame was rusted out where the upper control arms go? I've seen this a few times.
72bluNblu that made perfect sense thank you for such a detailed description!! I finally finished the lower control arm bushings, pretty much just followed the steps outlined here:
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/tipstricks/155_0306_control_arms/index.html
Now ill assemble and do what you suggested, here are a couple of pictures of the LCA
http://www.moparmusclemagazine.com/tipstricks/155_0306_control_arms/index.html
Now ill assemble and do what you suggested, here are a couple of pictures of the LCA
ESP47
Well-Known Member
Now, onto camber.
If you want your car to actually handle well, NEGATIVE camber is what you need (tires tipped in at the top). For a street car you probably want between 0 and -.5 degrees. Autocross and road racing cars run as much as -3 degrees camber, but on the street that'll eat your tires. I've found that I can get away with about -1.0 degree of camber before the wear pattern really takes a hit.
Currently my Challenger is set up with -.7 degrees of camber, +4.0 degrees caster, and 1/16" of toe in. This is a huge improvement over the stock alignment specs. I like to run a little extra - camber, but I also drive a decent amount on mountain/winding roads at a pretty spirited pace.
As for an example of negative camber, look at the front wheels of this 'Cuda. This is for Pike's Peak, and my guess would be around -3 degrees of camber, maybe more. Pretty extreme. But its also a pretty extreme course.
For normal street driving wouldnt you just want the camber adjusted to whatever slope the natural crown of the road is? The handling may not be as good if you're doing higher speeds on windy roads, but if you're just driving around town it should wear the tires out a lot less.
Got everything on today, and made the adjustments to the upper control arm and tie rod ends so that i can take it to get aligned, all problems seemed to be fixed it rides very well now thank you guys for all the great info!
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