Front suspension options

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72bluNblu said:
No, because they already have a jig and are doing it as a business. If you took it to a random welder to set up a custom, one off application it would. That business is banking on defraying the cost of the jig and the set up time over dozens of units.

Plus, they're using a mustang rack for steering, which is probably part of why it's narrowed that amount.



And why is Dodge Dakota suspension better? There's probably less aftermarket support for a good handling Dakota than there is for an A body. And having owned a Dakota, it's not like they handle spectacular to begin with.
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Actually, for the early Dakota's there is a lot of stuff out there:

Search Results viper

Sway bars
Coil springs
Tubular A arms
Bump steer kits
Dropped spindles
Poly bushings
Big brakes
Viper stuff...

Greg
 
dukeboy_318 said:
The bigger question, is a CV front suspension or a CV entirely for that matter , actually handle better than a well tuned A Body? I drove one for 7 years at work, I don't recall anything special bout them and we did EVOC courses and high speed pursuits with them....
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I've had EVOC training in police crown vic's as well. They handle decent for a big car, but even in with the law enforcement package cars you'd have more work to do in order to get them up to par with my Duster. Now, some of that might happen by moving the platform over to a lighter, smaller car. But I don't think there's any inherent advantage to the CV suspension beyond the rack and pinion steering. Which is nice but not worth converting the whole suspension system, at least in my opinion.

Greg55_99 said:
Actually, for the early Dakota's there is a lot of stuff out there:

Search Results viper

Sway bars
Coil springs
Tubular A arms
Bump steer kits
Dropped spindles
Poly bushings
Big brakes
Viper stuff...

Greg
Click to expand...

All of those parts are available for the A-body Mopar suspension as well, with quite a few different options now for tubular UCA's, sway bars, big brakes, etc. In fact, I have all of those parts on my car with the exception of the drop spindles and bump steer kit, because if you set your torsion bar suspension up properly you don't even need them.

So, why is the Dakota stuff better?
 
72bluNblu said:
I've had EVOC training in police crown vic's as well. They handle decent for a big car, but even in with the law enforcement package cars you'd have more work to do in order to get them up to par with my Duster. Now, some of that might happen by moving the platform over to a lighter, smaller car. But I don't think there's any inherent advantage to the CV suspension beyond the rack and pinion steering. Which is nice but not worth converting the whole suspension system, at least in my opinion.



All of those parts are available for the A-body Mopar suspension as well, with quite a few different options now for tubular UCA's, sway bars, big brakes, etc. In fact, I have all of those parts on my car with the exception of the drop spindles and bump steer kit, because if you set your torsion bar suspension up properly you don't even need them.

So, why is the Dakota stuff better?
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I would say the same points could be raised for Hemi Denny's suspension pieces. I wish I could afford them, but, with the wife as the "banker", I cannot. Denny's stuff is superb I might add. Anyway, I think the point of this "bench racing" is that there may be other ways to skin a cat suspension wise. ANYTHING can be improved on.
 
Greg55_99 said:
I would say the same points could be raised for Hemi Denny's suspension pieces. I wish I could afford them, but, with the wife as the "banker", I cannot. Denny's stuff is superb I might add. Anyway, I think the point of this "bench racing" is that there may be other ways to skin a cat suspension wise. ANYTHING can be improved on.
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But here's the big thing. With a Hemidenny, or GTS, or RMS, if it doesn't work the way you want it too(unlikely) you can take it back off and go back stock or in a other direction and easily sell the HDK, GTS or RMS and get most of your money back and you didn't destroy your car putting one in.

To put a CV suspension in, there's going to be some massive mods required of the frame rails, possibly the inner fenders and firewall to the point that going in another direction if it fails to actually improve the handling(likely) is impossible.
 
Furious65 said:
Already have a properly setup torsion bar suspension with heavier bars, rebuilt front end, Addco 1-1/8" sway bar, and SSBC disc conversion. It could be better but it is decent.
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You also mentioned Edelbrock shocks, but haven't mentioned what size torsion bars you're using.

With all do respect, here's what some of the guys are trying to tell you: What you call "properly set up" is considered a "very mild upgrade" for many folks around here. Unless your t-bars are at least 1" dia and you're using much better shocks and tires, you're not even close to the upper limits of A-body suspension. If you'd maxed everything out and then said "not good enough", I could understand. But the fact that you're not familiar with the Borgeson steering box tells me that you have some more investigation and research before I'd go with something as radical as you're proposing.

Having said that, if you proceed down this path anyway, I'd read everything you're willing to post about the swap, and wish you the best of luck!

-vm
 
Great discussion. Just to add a little more color though somewhat off topic, a friend of mine put a Chevy truck torsion bar on the right side of his circle track Mopar. I recall him saying they ground it down to fit the control arm. I'm not sure what they did on the other end. Maybe it was the right length.

They kicked *** with that 440 mopar. They liked to cheat too. I don't remember the body. Probable a Coronet.
 
vynn3 said:
You also mentioned Edelbrock shocks, but haven't mentioned what size torsion bars you're using.

With all do respect, here's what some of the guys are trying to tell you: What you call "properly set up" is considered a "very mild upgrade" for many folks around here. Unless your t-bars are at least 1" dia and you're using much better shocks and tires, you're not even close to the upper limits of A-body suspension. If you'd maxed everything out and then said "not good enough", I could understand. But the fact that you're not familiar with the Borgeson steering box tells me that you have some more investigation and research before I'd go with something as radical as you're proposing.

Having said that, if you proceed down this path anyway, I'd read everything you're willing to post about the swap, and wish you the best of luck!
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PST 1.03" bars.

With all due respect, I think what you, and others, are missing is that I'm not trying for a maxed out, tuned to the nth degree, auto x or drag race front suspension. Where all of you get this idea that everything has to be the best handling, or lightest weight, top of the line suspension, or it isn't worth it, is beyond me. I was merely thinking about options for a suspension that handles as well as stock, gave better room for headers, parts are readily available, updated to R&P steering, and was reasonably affordable. Those are things that would make it worth it to me, and that is all that matters.

If I ever were to go down this path, I promise, I will document the whole process and report my results whether good or bad.
 
Furious65 said:
PST 1.03" bars.

With all due respect, I think what you, and others, are missing is that I'm not trying for a maxed out, tuned to the nth degree, auto x or drag race front suspension. Where all of you get this idea that everything has to be the best handling, or lightest weight, top of the line suspension, or it isn't worth it, is beyond me. I was merely thinking about options for a suspension that handles as well as stock, gave better room for headers, parts are readily available, updated to R&P steering, and was reasonably affordable. Those are things that would make it worth it to me, and that is all that matters.

If I ever were to go down this path, I promise, I will document the whole process and report my results whether good or bad.
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I've already started down that path some years ago with my F body and an El Polako Dakota crossmember. One of these days, I'll get it done. Anyway, it's just to show that thinking outside the box can get you where you want to go. I wish I had up front money for Hemi Denny or Gerst but my "banker" only lets me do this is small increments. This works for me.

Volare_Dak1.jpg


Volare_Dak2.jpg


Volare_Dak3.JPG


Volare_Dak4.JPG
 
F,J,M bodies need all the help they can get...not the greatest suspension to grace a car.
 
Furious65 said:
PST 1.03" bars.

With all due respect, I think what you, and others, are missing is that I'm not trying for a maxed out, tuned to the nth degree, auto x or drag race front suspension. Where all of you get this idea that everything has to be the best handling, or lightest weight, top of the line suspension, or it isn't worth it, is beyond me. I was merely thinking about options for a suspension that handles as well as stock, gave better room for headers, parts are readily available, updated to R&P steering, and was reasonably affordable. Those are things that would make it worth it to me, and that is all that matters.

If I ever were to go down this path, I promise, I will document the whole process and report my results whether good or bad.
Click to expand...


No, we get what you're asking. Everyone I've seen comment on here has been down the very path you are starting now. We've been there, done it. Some of us have done it across multiple vehicle platforms across multiple manufacturers. We're simply trying to save you the headache, the time and ultimately the money and possibly the risk of screwing up a perfectly good A body car by giving you some suggestions to try first. I'f you're not after the absolute most from your suspension and or car, than the options of better shocks, T bars and the other suggestions will be very good for you.

What you are attempting to do, is swap a suspension from another car that handles decently for a stocker into a car not only 40 years older but from a completely different brand. Also, there is a TON that goes into suspension development. Everything from roll center, to center of gravity to akerman to weight. Will it fit? Sure, anything can be hacked on and made to fit. Will it work, who knows. It's one thing to put this on a hotrod project that's being custom built, most hotrods aren't out there doing handling events for a reason. Hotrods are notorious for having wandering and patched together suspensions. Some handle well, some dont.

We're not trying to discourage you or sell products or whatever. When you're talking about suspensions, particularly front suspensions, you're not just risky money, car , time but your life as well.

as for parts readily available.....I've yet to run into a single wearable part on an A body front suspension that's not readily available locally. I got my brake hoses, brake lines, brake pads, e brake cable, calibers, rotors, both ball joints, new LCA bushings, new power steering box and pump from the local Advance auto parts, all in stock except for the box, which they had next day. Which will be the same for the Crown Vic. Anything major like control arms etc isnt stock locally (i just checked) but can be had next day. So the notion that you can't source wearable parts for an a body front locally is a false/mythical argument there.

Ultimately, it is your car, it is your money. Sounds to me like your deadset on trying this so I wish you the best of luck and safety I can.

Good Luck
 
dukeboy_318 said:
No, we get what you're asking. Everyone I've seen comment on here has been down the very path you are starting now. We've been there, done it. Some of us have done it across multiple vehicle platforms across multiple manufacturers. We're simply trying to save you the headache, the time and ultimately the money and possibly the risk of screwing up a perfectly good A body car by giving you some suggestions to try first. I'f you're not after the absolute most from your suspension and or car, than the options of better shocks, T bars and the other suggestions will be very good for you.
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Good. It still seems that some don't get it.

dukeboy_318 said:
What you are attempting to do, is swap a suspension from another car that handles decently for a stocker into a car not only 40 years older but from a completely different brand. Also, there is a TON that goes into suspension development. Everything from roll center, to center of gravity to akerman to weight. Will it fit? Sure, anything can be hacked on and made to fit. Will it work, who knows. It's one thing to put this on a hotrod project that's being custom built, most hotrods aren't out there doing handling events for a reason. Hotrods are notorious for having wandering and patched together suspensions. Some handle well, some dont.
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I completely understand this.

dukeboy_318 said:
We're not trying to discourage you or sell products or whatever. When you're talking about suspensions, particularly front suspensions, you're not just risky money, car , time but your life as well.
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But you are specifically trying to discourage me! :D However, again, I understand the risks and consequences.

dukeboy_318 said:
as for parts readily available.....I've yet to run into a single wearable part on an A body front suspension that's not readily available locally. I got my brake hoses, brake lines, brake pads, e brake cable, calibers, rotors, both ball joints, new LCA bushings, new power steering box and pump from the local Advance auto parts, all in stock except for the box, which they had next day. Which will be the same for the Crown Vic. Anything major like control arms etc isnt stock locally (i just checked) but can be had next day. So the notion that you can't source wearable parts for an a body front locally is a false/mythical argument there.
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Yeah, Indiana, where I'm originally from btw, I'm sure finding parts still isn't too bad. Tucson, AZ sucks. Ask anyone who lives here. I worked for Checker Auto Parts in the 90's and early 00's and it was a pain sometimes then to get parts here. We are not Phoenix. We don't have parts available, quickly, for anything old here. Yes, I can get them, but most everything has to be shipped down from Phoenix. So, it either takes a day or maybe the next day, at best, to get a part. Hell, I don't even know of one decent bearing house in this town!

dukeboy_318 said:
Ultimately, it is your car, it is your money. Sounds to me like your deadset on trying this so I wish you the best of luck and safety I can.

Good Luck
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No, I'm not hell bent on doing it. Good chance I won't do it at all. It was just something I threw out there that I was researching. I was hoping someone actually knew of other alternatives to a modified stock A-body suspension or the full on tubular K's. I've actually only had two people (thanks Greg55_99 and ssba!) reply with alternatives and the rest have been to say what a bad idea the CV suspension would be.

Anyway, I will continue my research on it. I plan on using a Crown Vic front end on another project so I will have one to measure and scrutinize in person. Whether it will work well for an A-body, I don't know yet and might never know. I won't jump in to this lightly and have other avenues I'm exploring as well. If I do anything out of the norm I will post up all about it.
 
I think you should wear out a measuring tape before you give up on the CV. If the track width you desire can be achieved, and the rear stabilizer arms can be mounted without getting in the way of the headers you want....it's worth a try. Really, looking at a CV front end sitting in the floor......all it is, is an aluminum version of a Fatman or Heidts aftermarket Rustang II suspension.
 
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