Fuel Line Mod Done - Still Having Hot Restart Issues

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TripleJackInGA

Master of None
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Location
Sharpsburg, GA
72 Dart 225/Auto

I just got the car, and had some issues with it being a PITA when restarting after it had been driven. As an example, I would drive somewhere, turn it off, come back 5-15 minutes later, and it acts like it's not getting fuel. It takes at least 3 tries to start it, and it acts like it's missing or starving for fuel real bad for a minute after it starts.
I already suspect I may have accelerator pup issues, as it has an off-idle stumble.

So I did the fuel line mod a few days ago. No, I didn't use Fuel Injection hose, as I'm tight for money right now. I used standard fuel line hose.

I'm still having this hot restart issue, and when I stopped at the parts store today, I came out 10 minutes later to check something else, and noticed there were bubbles coming up in the inline filter. They were coming up from the pump side. They didn't look like boiling bubbles, but more like bubbles you would see if the fuel is draining back into the tank, and air is replacing it, if that makes any sense. I tried snapping a few photos of the bubbles in action, and this is the best I could capture. Also note the routing of my fuel line, and placement of the filter.

P2220013.jpg

P2220017.jpg

P2220022.jpg
 
Have you ever removed the fuel tank and flushed it out?
 
StrokerScamp said:
Have you ever removed the fuel tank and flushed it out?
Click to expand...

Nope, but I thought about it right after I got it. The car has 55k miles on it, and you know the story when they sit a lot like that....
On the way home from buying it, had to stop and replace the filter after I filled up, because it was full of a reddish-brown substance. ;)
 
TripleJackInGA said:
Nope, but I thought about it right after I got it. The car has 55k miles on it, and you know the story when they sit a lot like that....
On the way home from buying it, had to stop and replace the filter after I filled up, because it was full of a reddish-brown substance. ;)
Click to expand...

Well man, there you go. If you keep messin with that without doing a tank flush, I think you're chasin your tail. It's not the mileage, it's the amount of time that's passed. That is always always always the first thing I do to an old car when I get it. I usually end up replacing the tank, but a few times I've been able to reuse them. On this little 63 I just got, it needs a new tank.
 
Hi,

I used to have the same issues. And I had the same fuel filter. Fuel would slowly drain away and be replaced by air.

I think the fuel will naturally drain back over time no matter what. My issues were

1. vacuum leak
2. needed timing adjustment
3. needed new spark plugs and spark plug wires, cap and rotor

Fixing the vacuum leak didnt cost me any money and it made the biggest difference. I had a bad vacuum leak under the carb. Carb has 8 holes, only 4 are meant to be used at n e given time. Previous owner drilled a "thru" hole on one of the 8 holes he didnt end up filling with a bolt or stud. So at all times there was an extra 1/4"+ hole sucking air. That threw off my air/fuel mixture at all rpm's and at start up. Made startup take much longer.

4. I had "dead spot" upon hitting throttle, or "bog". The squirter on my Holley was very small. I changed out the 30cc accellerator pump cams for the whole variety available..........improvement but no cigar. I changed out the squirters for the whole variety available.........improvement but no cigar. Last I installed a 50cc accelerator pump. Put squirter back to "baseline" and put in smallest 50cc accelerator pump cam.............success! And followed w/ a lil fine tuning with the squirter size.

If you decide to fiddle with carb,,,,,,just make 1 change at a time then test. Easier to narrow things down.

Take it easy,

Bad Shrimp
 
i would keep a squeeze mustard bottle full of gas tucked behind the battery and when it wont start give the carb a shot and either confirm or rule out fuel starvation.My complete guess is the things flooding when its turned off. have you tried holding it on the floor and cranking for a while to see if it dries out and cranks.Cold engine likes a rich mixture to crank. Hot motor not so much. Bet the carb is flooding the intake while it sets.
 
This is almost certainly not fuel starvation, but flooding due to percolation: when you stop the engine, the radiator fan is no longer blowing air past the carburetor and manifolds. Heat rises and the carburetor becomes a tea kettle. Today's fuels have a lower boiling point than the fuels of the past, which is no problem with closed pressurized fuel systems (fuel injection) but makes a problem with open systems and carburetors. The fuel boils in the carburetor and collects in the intake manifold. When you come back and try to start the car, it takes a lot of cranking to clear out the overload of fuel before the mixture in the cylinders is lean enough to be combustible.

Solutions start with the dead simple: use the correct starting procedure. When the engine is hot, hold the accelerator about 1/3 of the way down (don't pump it!) while cranking. In extreme cases of percolation flooding, with the engine spluttering and "trying" to start, hold the accelerator all the way to the floor while cranking. Either action holds the throttle partly or fully open to admit more air to the intake tract and speed the clearout of accumulated fuel.

Make sure the correct carburetor base (mount) gasket is in place. It should be a 3/8" thick insulator block.

Make a heat shield for the carburetor. This is to be sandwiched between the carburetor and the carb mount gasket. Make it of 1/16" semi-rigid gasket material. Copy all the holes and notches in the carb mount gasket. There used to be such a shield available from the factory, but it is long discontinued. By looking at the picture, you can see that it should extend several inches forward, rightward, and leftward of the carburetor mount axis. The factory shield was a 2-piece item; the rearmost part is nowhere near as critical as the front/side coverage:

Carb_Heatshield.gif


Go through and rebuild the carburetor with a quality kit (such as from www.daytonaparts.com ; their kits also usually have a better inlet needle/seat assembly more resistant to flooding), and install a new float, Walker number 100-14 (Daytona should also have a new float for this carburetor; ask them). Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.
 
This does sound like a percolation problem. Sometimes, lowering the float bit will alleviate the problem.
 
slantsixdan said:
This is almost certainly not fuel starvation, but flooding due to percolation
Click to expand...

That does make a lot of sense. One time last week, I had just restarted it after it sitting for maybe 10 minutes, and of course it was hard to restart, idled erratically after finally starting. I drove 2 blocks, and as I sat at the stop sign, it died. When I went to crank it, damn if I didn't flood the thing somehow. I pushed it into an adjacent empty lot, and after me messing with it for maybe 20 minutes (time to cool off), it started right up like nothing ever happened.

I already got a rebuild kit from Daytona Parts. Their resto service is just a bit out of my price range right now. I didn't get a new float, but I'll see if I can find one. If memory serves me correctly, in asking the guy at Daytona about if it came with a float, I think he said that the 1920 comes OE with a foam float, but what we want to use is a brass replacement, right?

I'll also be checking the carb base gasket, and making that heat shield.
 
inkjunkie said:
Me too. Can't help but laugh when you see the rare ocasion that sombody starts with him and Dan is polite in his responce....
Click to expand...

Yeah...polite and CORRECT but somehow even polite he still rips um up. What would we do you, without Dan? LMAO
 
Could it be the way you have the filter mounted? I have a the clear filter too but it is much closer to the carb and is horizontal instead of vertical like yours.

It looks like it's draining back down and the filter needs to refill and get pressure again so the engine can suck the fuel. Since there's a bubble coming up, it seems like air is filling the filter and the is engine getting pockets of air then fuel. My filter looks like it is almost full when the car is just sitting.
 
slantsixdan said:
This is almost certainly not fuel starvation, but flooding due to percolation: when you stop the engine, the radiator fan is no longer blowing air past the carburetor and manifolds. Heat rises and the carburetor becomes a tea kettle. Today's fuels have a lower boiling point than the fuels of the past, which is no problem with closed pressurized fuel systems (fuel injection) but makes a problem with open systems and carburetors. The fuel boils in the carburetor and collects in the intake manifold. When you come back and try to start the car, it takes a lot of cranking to clear out the overload of fuel before the mixture in the cylinders is lean enough to be combustible.

Solutions start with the dead simple: use the correct starting procedure. When the engine is hot, hold the accelerator about 1/3 of the way down (don't pump it!) while cranking. In extreme cases of percolation flooding, with the engine spluttering and "trying" to start, hold the accelerator all the way to the floor while cranking. Either action holds the throttle partly or fully open to admit more air to the intake tract and speed the clearout of accumulated fuel.

Make sure the correct carburetor base (mount) gasket is in place. It should be a 3/8" thick insulator block.

Make a heat shield for the carburetor. This is to be sandwiched between the carburetor and the carb mount gasket. Make it of 1/16" semi-rigid gasket material. Copy all the holes and notches in the carb mount gasket. There used to be such a shield available from the factory, but it is long discontinued. By looking at the picture, you can see that it should extend several inches forward, rightward, and leftward of the carburetor mount axis. The factory shield was a 2-piece item; the rearmost part is nowhere near as critical as the front/side coverage:

Carb_Heatshield.gif


Go through and rebuild the carburetor with a quality kit (such as from www.daytonaparts.com ; their kits also usually have a better inlet needle/seat assembly more resistant to flooding), and install a new float, Walker number 100-14 (Daytona should also have a new float for this carburetor; ask them). Carburetor operation and repair manuals and links to training movies and carb repair/modification threads are posted here for free download.
Click to expand...



Dan, I found one of those at a yard once and actually had the smarts to snap a photo with a measuring reference too...
 

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TripleJackInGA said:
That does make a lot of sense. One time last week, I had just restarted it after it sitting for maybe 10 minutes, and of course it was hard to restart, idled erratically after finally starting. I drove 2 blocks, and as I sat at the stop sign, it died. When I went to crank it, damn if I didn't flood the thing somehow.
Click to expand...

Also typical of percolation.

If memory serves me correctly, in asking the guy at Daytona about if it came with a float, I think he said that the 1920 comes OE with a foam float, but what we want to use is a brass replacement, right?
Click to expand...

There's no brass float for the 1920. Use a new foam float, Walker number 100-14.

Also make sure your manifold heat control valve is free and not stuck. With the engine cold, grab the ~3" round disc facing front on the central collector portion of the exhaust manifold. Rotate it counterclockwise til it stops, then let go of it. It should spring back clockwise. If you cannot turn it, or if it is stiff and doesn't spring back, hit it with Mopar solvent number 4318039AC.
 
72Plymouth said:
Could it be the way you have the filter mounted? I have a the clear filter too but it is much closer to the carb and is horizontal instead of vertical like yours.
Click to expand...

A vertical-to-45° filter mounting is best for avoiding percolation. Horizontal is worst.


the filter needs to refill and get pressure again so the engine can suck the fuel.
Click to expand...

That isn't how it works.
 
i had that problem on the 67. I used a glass fuel filter leveled it out, found a brass float for the 1920 thanks to my Uncle who is a guru of everything Chrysler and he had me adjust the timing and adjust the valves correctly. Ever since i run cooler and starts instantly. Oh and put electronic iginition.
 
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