Getting the most out of a low comp 440

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Good news and bad news. I stumbled on a '97 2500 4x4 Cummins Dodge Ram for a steal Sunday...there goes the Sweptline budget, until I can sell some of my other junk.

Maybe just a bone stock cheap ring n bearings rebuild on the 440 for now, and try it that way, if for no other reason than so it's not sitting around in pieces until I get some $ to finish it...and the 318 in the truck is using almost as much oil as gas, haha!
 
Aint nothing bone cheap..lol..before you stash it in the corner rebuild it, at least the shtblk grease up cylinders and cover it in a dry place along with all the parts heads etc...and maybe 10 yrs from now after a couple kids and a divorce or 2 you know life in general...you'll come back and re-discover her just waiting to finish what you started... then again maybe you will just finish it now in mild form and put it in the trk as a daily beater/runner...think of all the fun slinging sand/dirt... and the rubber you could burn....dont jump ship now...hell prob 2 mths payments on that diesel would fund it....
 
No paymenets, the diesel was a steal, all it cost was my little sweptline nest egg, which I actually had started saving to fix my last diesel. Shouldn't be too much of a setback, just until I can sell the 4runner and some other twiddly bits, hopefully after the holidays, my machinist buddy just had knee replacement surgery anyway. I think a basic rebuild of the 440 would be a good practice run before I do it whole hog...and I might do it a little hotter now that it won't have to be a DD. :burnout: Won't bother with AC and overdrive.

Gotta get enough $ to do the 440 and 727, and some other smaller stuff on the swept. Steering box rebuild and whatnot.


I do think the Swept is mad at me though, peed ATF in the driveway last night.
 
Just wait til it craps rear-end grease,the atf [red] is cause you broke swepts heart thinking it was getting a 440...better go xplain the situation to ole swept or youre gonna come out some morning to 4 flats and no pulse then it will be code blue...lol...hey cars/trks got personality and quirks,dont think so just cuss one out and see what happens...jus sayin
 
Buy some different pistons and forget all that milling. You can mill the 452s down to closed chamber and take as much as you dare off the deck and it still wont have quench, but you will have to mill your intake and buy custom pushrods. The stock valley pan/intake gasket will need attention, as well as your head bolts.
 
so I posted this somewhere else, should have posted it here. I’m back! There goes the neighborhood!

Got another moho 440 and working on getting another ‘68 truck to stick it in.

Actually also working on getting another later model “barn find” truck that’s already equipped with a 440. Will probably flip it to fund my fun fund.

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Waiting on paperwork to flip the barn find.

just bought a ‘68 short bed 383 today. The 383 will need at least gone thru. I have another 440 moho to pick up tomorrow…so maybe it will end up 440.
 
We have done dozens of late model low compression 440 engines that have the pistons .150" down the hole or more for hot street or low dollar bracket motors. The cheapest and absolute best way to cure the problem like we always do in this application is to deck the block a .100" and I have actually decked a few of mine .125". You get several gains by going this, but you have to understand a few things that go along with this route. First it will raise the compression a bunch. You will need to buy some ARP head bolt washers to put under the stock head bolts to make up the loss in block height or your bolts will most likely bottom out before you reach head bolt torque. You'll need new push rods as well. Here's the part that loses most people. When you lower the deck this causes the intake to sit up higher on the head intake surface, so you have to slot the intake bolt holes on the inside just a touch. Now the part that is the sweet cherry on top. Since the intake ports are now sitting higher on the head than before you can lightly (in just a few spots) use yellow weather stripping adhesive to the intake side of the gasket and bolt the intake to the heads. Next day unbolt it and use a scribe to trace out the gasket outline on the intake. Later you will blend the roof of the intake and the sides but leave the floor of the intake alone. After this is completed go back and use more of weather stripping adhesive to the head side of the gasket than you did on the intake side and bolt it all back together and let it sit until the next day. Now carefully remove the intake and let the gasket pull away from the intake while stays stuck to the heads. This provides you with the perfect porting template to high port the intake runners on the heads. Just remember to not touch the floors. Air flows along the top of the ports not the bottom as much. Raising the intake port and making sure the intake and heads fit together allows smooth airflow and provides gains in overall flow with minimal effort. Now some will think this is a crazy approach and some will understand what I am saying and understand the logic behind it. If you follow these words you can take an engine that runs like a turd and turn it into something that runs really well. for very little. No need to bore a block or buy pistons for a just a little effort, set of rings and a few hundred dollars you can create something you'll very much enjoy for your efforts.

Tom
 
DavidWymore said:
First engine build, I want to do my homework to get the most out of the engine for the least coin and to avoid mistakes. I've been reading up on 440s online for a couple weeks and have 3 books on them in the mail from Amazon. Decided to join this forum as is seems to be about the best place for 440 tech. Devil's in the details, so I'm trying to nail them all down, sorry it's a bit long.


What I have :


'77 440, disassembled, ran ok but smoked before the HG blew due to some loose and one broken head bolt. Never got to drive the truck with it in it, so don't have a feel for how a stock 440 would run.

850 CFM Tquad from long time carb man Rick Walker in SD.

Stock intake

Stock 452 heads

Block - cylinders are worn a few thou, front pass is the worst, .009"

Pistons down in the hole probably .150" (need to double check)

Stock cam, .010" bent in the center, bend discovered while determining lobe lift in a lathe.

Looks to be factory double roller timing chain, sprockets probably OK, chain very slack.

Cast crank, .020" under rods and mains, bearings worn to copper.

Unknown long tube headers. (need to check size)

Pics

http://s142.photobucket.com/user/DavidWhymore/library/440?sort=3&page=1


Vehicle :

'70 Shortbed D100 weighs ~4000#

727 (Will consider converter change, maybe a 4spd or switch to NV4500 I have)

Currently 3.55 8-3/4", 4.10 Detroit locked D60 waiting in the wings, along with a Browning-Lipe auxiliary transmission, 2:1 underdrive, direct, .73 OD.

Vehicle use/environment: Below sea level, triple digit summers, will get AC. 87 octane

Daily driver, cruiser, hotrod, maybe some light towing, trips to local desert/sand dunes if/when I get some paddles for the back. Trips up hot, steep grade from desert over 4000ft mntns to San Diego.

Experience: 15 years playing with 4x4s. '81 CJ-7, I-6, locked D44s, 35"s

'88Blazer, TBI 5.7, locked D60s, 39"s

'95 Ram 2500 Cummins, locked, 39"s 434 hp/800tq

Couple stock V6 4runners, 3.4L and 4.0L

I have always done all my own wrenching and fabbing at the family shop except for major engine work/builds.

Abilities/tools: General (non-auto) machine shop. I don't have a setup to bore the cylinders accurately, but I could make a fixture to deck the block and heads. I have a mostly retired friend who does have automotive machining capabilities, but may no be able to get him to do much, and I have no other machine shops in my area.

Theories/options: (open to input)

I've kicked a lot of stuff around (new pistons for quench, Stealth heads, etc. to hopefully raise compression for mpg and power efficiency) and come back to hopefully throwing rings and bearings in it, annealing the stock shim head gaskets, and putting it back together, with a cam change to try to increase cylinder pressure and maximize performance of the setup. I don't want a motorhome or 1 ton truck low RPM only stump puller like my Jeep, but I don't want a high RPM hp only engine either like the Toyota V6s.

I could mill the heads, up to .060", some guys go up to .120" is what I've read, but risky. Not sure how much I can raise compression without quench on 87. Not sure how much I could deck block, maybe .050"??? Shorten pushrods or shim rocker shafts.

Input much appreciated, thanks!
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Just my two cents, but if you have a cylinder bore out by 9 thousands it is time for a rebore and new pistons. Otherwise you are just patching it and will be doing it all over again shortly.

If you want quench, and since you need pistons anyway, you can get it with a KB step head design piston with your open chamber heads, or 6 pack pistons with closed chamber head and a little deck milling on the block.
 
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mgoblue9798 said:
Just my two cents, but if you have a cylinder bore out by 9 thousands it is time for a rebore and new pistons. Otherwise you are just patching it and will be doing it all over again shortly.

If you want quench, and since you need pistons anyway, you can get it with a KB step head design piston with your open chamber heads, or 6 pack pistons with closed chamber head and a little deck milling on the block.
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Yeah, that motor is long gone...starting over with two I haven't opened yet...probably go with KB quench pistons.
 
DavidWymore said:
comments on just getting everything from 440source?
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That's basically what I'm doing for the 440 going in my D200. Some parts like the valvetrain and pistons I want to use aren't carried by 440Source so I'm getting them from Summit or elsewhere. From recommendations here on FABO I got their "new stock replacement" connecting rods which seem really nice. I've also gotten their HV water pump and WP housing along with their 12-point head bolts to use with their Stealth heads which I will be purchasing shortly as soon as my state tax returns come in lol. Basically 440Source is the first place to check for a part I need, if they don't have it I get it somewhere else. I prefer supporting smaller independent businesses especially ones dedicated to MOPAR.
 
FWIW, I am very happy with a low compression 1978 MH 440 with a Hughes whiplash 440 cam, headers, and a tunnel ram with dual 660 Holley center squirters.
 
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