GM OD tranny fit?

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Supershafts said:
...worst case scenario some A bodies need a hammer to smack the floor a little at just before the body cross..
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Have never done this swap, but have talked with several people who have and have read several articles on the swap, one of which is shown in detail in Mopar action, in every case the people stated that the trans tunnel/and torsion bar cross member needed lots of fab to make it all work. Just my 2 cents. Also we have a member here who has a 518 in his duster, may have to search threads to find it.
 
Supershafts said:
Only if you read it that way.....
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What would you call it, slick?

The OP's post asked about the GM tranny. He even stated that he was gonna get hate mail from others which you provided.

So what's with the "sounds like GM people" comment?
Or the comment about putting an LS motor in?

How many 518 swaps have you done? How are you keeping the driveline angles correct if you are simply dropping the tailshaft for minimal mods?
How are you controling the trans? Aren't you still modifying the driveshaft?

Just saying it sounds like the blind comments I see over on Moparts from their "expert" tools......
 
Revhendo said:
What would you call it, slick?

The OP's post asked about the GM tranny. He even stated that he was gonna get hate mail from others which you provided.

So what's with the "sounds like GM people" comment?
Or the comment about putting an LS motor in?

How many 518 swaps have you done? How are you keeping the driveline angles correct if you are simply dropping the tailshaft for minimal mods?
How are you controling the trans? Aren't you still modifying the driveshaft?

Just saying it sounds like the blind comments I see over on Moparts from their "expert" tools......
Click to expand...


I see you have done 0 with a 518 or know nothing about it....

Again the only physical diff between the 27 and 18 starts right at the tail housing to main housing section... The only area that needs to make any room for the trans is right there and the next few inches back... and it's all right around the body cross and the trans cross member

What angle are you changing..... The mount is LOWER on the 18 vs the 27 or 04, so if you do not cut and lower the mount location on the cross member then you would be changing the angle... IT's WHY you LOWER that section...

Then you just cut, narrow the body cross member section and reweld the top section back to it...

I have done 2.... You know what the worst part was, the welding burns...


Sorry the little sarcastic joke gets your panties in a bunch with the gm and might as well drop a ls with the trans in.... or just buy a camaro...
It would be easier to drop the trans with the motor, then buy the adapters, might even be cheaper that way....



Now the op is asking because he thinks it's EASIER, and i didn't see anyone instruct him correctly....

So let him know what he is in for playing with the gm trans... vs the 18..some cutting = 0 cost, some welding = 0 cost, a wire to engage the od...$ a switch $, the slip if he doesn't have a 27 and shortening the shaft..

Needing a flex plate and adapter housing = $$$ , checking it's inline, linkage = making, modifying. speedo = $$ , od engages with the need for a tv cable, trans lines....

Lets see, you get a 518, it bolts up to the motor, it should take 2 hours to modifiy the cross and body cross sections taking your time...
You shorten your shaft, if you have the 27 same slip, if not, a new slip..

Sure does beat the need for, flex plate and bellhousing adapters, tv's, internal balanced or ext and lines and whatever else im forgetting...

But you're right revhendo.... im talking him down a bad path....


Hate....lol im talking him out of doing something costly & dopey because people make it sound scary..... you're talking him into it...
You're also scaring him into believing it's a huge job to put the 18 in...


Might as well put a GV in it before the gm swap... then all you gotta do is drop the trans cross member remove the tail housing and leave everything else alone....oh and maybe need a hammer to make some room...
 
Why all the hoopla in regards to which transmission when you are actually speaking of gear ratios and which ratio should one be running to achieve what it is that is wanted. Running a 518 transmission for gas mileage still has you running low ratio high number rear end ratios like 3:55 to 4:10 and we all know what these ring and pinions can cost which will still put us in the ball park we are comfortable with. Of course there is other things like figuring out tire height also which has to effect just about everything in order to figure out the complete game plan. All this plays a part in coming out of the chute at a decent pace and lastly what RPM will be at cruising the highways

518 transmission - 2.45 first gear, 1.45 second, 1 to 1 third, .69 OD

2004R transmission - 2.74 first gear, 1.57 second, 1 to 1 third, .67 OD

700R4 transmission - 3.06 first gear, 1.62 second, 1 to 1 third, .70 OD
 
Supershafts said:
I see you have done 0 with a 518 or know nothing about it....

Again the only physical diff between the 27 and 18 starts right at the tail housing to main housing section... The only area that needs to make any room for the trans is right there and the next few inches back... and it's all right around the body cross and the trans cross member

What angle are you changing..... The mount is LOWER on the 18 vs the 27 or 04, so if you do not cut and lower the mount location on the cross member then you would be changing the angle... IT's WHY you LOWER that section...

Then you just cut, narrow the body cross member section and reweld the top section back to it...

I have done 2.... You know what the worst part was, the welding burns...


Sorry the little sarcastic joke gets your panties in a bunch with the gm and might as well drop a ls with the trans in.... or just buy a camaro...
It would be easier to drop the trans with the motor, then buy the adapters, might even be cheaper that way....



Now the op is asking because he thinks it's EASIER, and i didn't see anyone instruct him correctly....

So let him know what he is in for playing with the gm trans... vs the 18..some cutting = 0 cost, some welding = 0 cost, a wire to engage the od...$ a switch $, the slip if he doesn't have a 27 and shortening the shaft..

Needing a flex plate and adapter housing = $$$ , checking it's inline, linkage = making, modifying. speedo = $$ , od engages with the need for a tv cable, trans lines....

Lets see, you get a 518, it bolts up to the motor, it should take 2 hours to modifiy the cross and body cross sections taking your time...
You shorten your shaft, if you have the 27 same slip, if not, a new slip..

Sure does beat the need for, flex plate and bellhousing adapters, tv's, internal balanced or ext and lines and whatever else im forgetting...

But you're right revhendo.... im talking him down a bad path....


Hate....lol im talking him out of doing something costly & dopey because people make it sound scary..... you're talking him into it...
You're also scaring him into believing it's a huge job to put the 18 in...


Might as well put a GV in it before the gm swap... then all you gotta do is drop the trans cross member remove the tail housing and leave everything else alone....oh and maybe need a hammer to make some room...
Click to expand...

Hey Slick,
Where did I say you were taking down the wrong path?
I was merely commenting about your Big Richard attitude. You could've come on an stated what you have done, as you have in your second post, but that wasn't the case. You might actually want to check the definition of sarcasm, it's in the big peoples dictionary....
 
ok well this thread seems to have tailspinned. all i wanted to know if if it was easier to fit s GM tranny in because i THOUGH (key word) that i read somewhere some1 did it. i never sed "i say the GM tranny is better"

it looks like im not goin with either a GM or the 518 for the time being, since i h=dnt have the tools or expertise to do the convertion. id rather do the 518 since its a mopar tranny. id hate to use a GM tranny because id have to hide it from my Chevy buddy, but for some reason i thought i saw it somewhere
 
73charger said:
ok well this thread seems to have tailspinned. all i wanted to know if if it was easier to fit s GM tranny in because i THOUGH (key word) that i read somewhere some1 did it. i never sed "i say the GM tranny is better"

it looks like im not goin with either a GM or the 518 for the time being, since i h=dnt have the tools or expertise to do the convertion. id rather do the 518 since its a mopar tranny. id hate to use a GM tranny because id have to hide it from my Chevy buddy, but for some reason i thought i saw it somewhere
Click to expand...

My apologies for going sideways on your thread. This actually does have the potential for alot of usefull info. All of these swaps have been done before and those that know can supply real good advice.
 
73charger said:
ok well this thread seems to have tailspinned. all i wanted to know if if it was easier to fit s GM tranny in because i THOUGH (key word) that i read somewhere some1 did it. i never sed "i say the GM tranny is better"

it looks like im not goin with either a GM or the 518 for the time being, since i h=dnt have the tools or expertise to do the convertion. id rather do the 518 since its a mopar tranny. id hate to use a GM tranny because id have to hide it from my Chevy buddy, but for some reason i thought i saw it somewhere
Click to expand...
Have to hide it? Why? Part of this hobby, at least to me, is if the brand of the car that you are building does not have available what you need to be satisfied, LOOK ELSEWHERE. Nothing wrong with it. There is some people around here that would much rather see you burning up parts using an all Mopar drivetrain, or make some serious compromises, than doing what you need to do for YOUR car. In my case, a 727 with a GV will not work, I will need to run a loose convertor and with the torgue of a 572" EFI Hemi and the od effect of the GV it will equal a lot of convertor slip. Couple that with all of the hills I have around here and it will equal a burnt up trans. A 518? At least for me, while it might work, I like the adjustability of the gm4l80e's electronics. And my trans guy, at least this is what he told me, feels that the 518 is an inferior unit. You do not agree, do not argue with me, argue with him. He has only been doing this for 25 or years. His units have covered hundreds of thousands of desert race miles. For what it is worth, I have learned that there are certain things that should not be discussed on this forum, and one of them is the swapping of another brands components into a car to make it more driveable. My trans guy used to push the GV when that is all there was available for an od unit. But after several failed units and with the onset of the parts to swap newer electronic transmissions into cars he has since stopped pushing the GV unit. IT IS YOUR CAR, PUT WHATEVER TRANS YOU WANT IN IT........And if someone has an issue with it and there comments bother you, just put them on your ignore list. And as far as the expense of a trans swap, in the grand scheme of things of the building of a car, what is another couple of thousand dollars?
 
haha dont get me wrong inkjunkie its not that im against using superior parts. its that my chevy buddy would never shut up about "haha ur you couldnt get a good enough tranny from mopar an had to get a chevy one!" he kinda annoying about how great chevy is. i would buy ANY domestic before an import, and i love Ford and chevy but nothings better than a good ol' mopar
 
Inkjunkie.. Why would I or anyone believe any of that.

For 1 I have and do use GV's, I have 3... I have never seen any other aftermarket piece so damned reliable.

Remember when YOU make a post with accusations, YOU will be the one questioned, can't deal with it, then DON'T post the bs..or second hand hearsay..

I have a gv behind a 510" indy headed 2 stg b base in a 4000 lb car... So in 10 years the A&A trans/dyn tc and GV have performed flawlessly....
Oh sob I haven't changed the GV fluid in 5 years... Talk about damned reliable..

Burned up..27's c'mon who are you using tci...

That is some mother goose post there inkjunkie...lol burn up trans because of hills... Yeah use the right Tc man.. See my boy Martin Saine at MSPerformance..



Bottom line is he asked about easier.. Not better..
So
1. Its not easier
2. Its not stronger
3. Its not cheaper

So to answer the OP's post..

It is not a direct bolt in, and its not easier or cheaper.

Easier is buying a set up dead gear and putting that in..
Next best thing and easy a GV..
. The gv unlike the 200 or 518 or 4l80 is that I works in every gear and is extremely versatile unlike all od trans..
.
 
Supershafts said:
Inkjunkie.. Why would I or anyone believe any of that.

For 1 I have and do use GV's, I have 3... I have never seen any other aftermarket piece so damned reliable.

Remember when YOU make a post with accusations, YOU will be the one questioned, can't deal with it, then DON'T post the bs..or second hand hearsay..

I have a gv behind a 510" indy headed 2 stg b base in a 4000 lb car... So in 10 years the A&A trans/dyn tc and GV have performed flawlessly....
Oh sob I haven't changed the GV fluid in 5 years... Talk about damned reliable..

Burned up..27's c'mon who are you using tci...

That is some mother goose post there inkjunkie...lol burn up trans because of hills... Yeah use the right Tc man.. See my boy Martin Saine at MSPerformance..



Bottom line is he asked about easier.. Not better..
So
1. Its not easier
2. Its not stronger
3. Its not cheaper

So to answer the OP's post..

It is not a direct bolt in, and its not easier or cheaper.

Easier is buying a set up dead gear and putting that in..
Next best thing and easy a GV..
. The gv unlike the 200 or 518 or 4l80 is that I works in every gear and is extremely versatile unlike all od trans..
.
Click to expand...
:prayer::prayer::prayer:
 
Being an old Buick guy before I was a Mopar guy, stock to stock GM does not build a trans as good as a Mopar trans. I used to put 833's in my stick cars because I couldn't get a Muncie to live.

This doesn't mean a GM trans couldn't be made to work but why? When you have a perfectly good trans to work with.


Chuck
 
Does anybody have the figures on how much power each of these trannys take? I think they call it a Kilgore Rating? (Could be wrong on that one.) I remember reading somewhere that the 727 took the most power to operate than any other auto, hence the reason that alot of superstockers used to try and run the 904.
 
Can't really go by that trans hp loss theory...

the test is done with different converters, and a 2 spd like a glide will have much less hp loss then a 3 spd.

The reason for the 904 is it is lighter overall and has the better 1st gear that the 27 needs installed...
 
This thread is a little beat-up but.........A 4l65e(60e) / 700r4 / 200r4 will not fit without mods. Crossmember, mount, little beatin on the tunnel will be required to make it fit. A Gearvendors behind a 727 is the simplest Auto OD

I have a 4l65e mocked up behind a 6.1 now.

5-27-09 updates 053.JPG
 
Supershafts said:
Can't really go by that trans hp loss theory...

the test is done with different converters, and a 2 spd like a glide will have much less hp loss then a 3 spd.

The reason for the 904 is it is lighter overall and has the better 1st gear that the 27 needs installed...
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Yeah, but what is that "theory"? I actually thought it was an industry standard.
Oh, and Dick Landy, back in the day, was quoted as saying the 904 weighed less AND took less horsepower to run.
 
That is true you will be really modifying the cross member for the gm trans, not just cutting and lowering the mount on the cross member
 
Revhendo said:
Yeah, but what is that "theory"? I actually thought it was an industry standard.
Oh, and Dick Landy, back in the day, was quoted as saying the 904 weighed less AND took less horsepower to run.
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Anything lighter takes less hp to run, it's why i always tell people... 5 and 10 pounds in the driveline is equivalent to a couple hundred carrying pounds, it's why i can't understand why people skimp on the driveline and toss everything at the motor to lose more hp then it can get to the tire.
Ever see a 800hp car get spanked by a 600hp car....and they wonder why...

I forgot the tests on the trans, but they didn't take into account tc's are all different and 2 spds are totally different then 3 spds.

The 27 can be taken care of to have no losses.
 
rjsjea said:
This thread is a little beat-up but.........A 4l65e(60e) / 700r4 / 200r4 will not fit without mods. Crossmember, mount, little beatin on the tunnel will be required to make it fit. A Gearvendors behind a 727 is the simplest Auto OD

I have a 4l65e mocked up behind a 6.1 now.
Click to expand...

Of the GM trannys in an A body, the 200 is probably the easiest fit. I have done several of the 4l65e conversions in B bodies and have only had to modify the pinchweld at the firewall. (Hammered it flat at the 10 and 2 spots.) My understanding is that it's a bit more work to put one in an A body.
To be honest, I really like the way those trannys shifted over the 518.
 
You can install a 4l60e in with only bending the pinch weld and notching torsion bar crossmember near tunnel. To clear the tail housing and main case. I know because we have done many.

Gearvendors has a great place in large motor homes. Not in the tunnels of Mopars.

Remember it just adds weight to the existing set up and can be troublesome getting the driveline angles correct.

I have talked with many guys who have installed the GV and couldn't get the driveline vibration to go away and they had to modify there tunnel.

I am not trying to sell anything. There isn't a clear clean no cut solution for an overdrive in the A-bodys. Gm or otherwise.
 
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