headers or not to headers

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sublimeswinger

SUBLIME Senior Member
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I was talking to a guy that felt strongly about not using headers on my 72 dart 318.He said if you dont buy $500-$600 headers your asking for a headach because there a pain in the but(there hard to install,they get bent,they dont fit right,they leak).He said to go with the old school manifolds and duel exhaust.Is there any truth to this?Whats your guys opinion?I was thinking of getting so hooker comps. but dont wanna spend the money if its going to be a headach. :sad2:
 
Sounds like your friend has good knowledge of headers on A-bodies. Speaking as a person that has just installed a set of Hooker super comps in the last 3 months I can attest that they are a royal pain in the rump roast to install although I do have power steering. If you have manual steering that will make it a little easier but you will have to disassemble your steering to allow the drivers side to pass through then re-assemble it. You will also have to unbolt the engine and jack it up as far as it will go and have a friend pry it to the passenger side as hard as he can to get the drivers side header in. The drivers side header hangs really low also. I'm sure it won't take long to be flattened out. Then there comes the issue of getting them to seal up. The middle pipes aren't lined up good. That's right. Those high dollar Hookers aren't even close to ligning up correctly. About 3/16" off. Unfortunately I had them over a year in the box so I couldn't send them back. If I had it to do over I would have sold everything I could to get TTI's or used stock manifolds.
 
I think a good dual exhaust off the stock manifolds,
is very fine for a street car.

TTI headers are about $700.00.

aprox 15 hp over dual exhaust is not worth that to me.

http://moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0307_exhaust/

cavemanmoron said:
Hmm,the performance gains for the 340 manifolds
don't seem so great,for the money I see them sell for.:(

16 hp increase using the TTI headers,I wonder how much the
"new 63-66 early a-body" headers will be worth.... Hmm.
{Also :( How much will they cost too.}


http://moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/155_0307_exhaust/

Exhaust Blowout on a Mopar 300hp Crate
Running the numbers on a mild 360

For our baseline test, we fitted the 360 with the lowest of exhaust low, a set of stock small-passage 318 iron exhaust manifolds. Bolted to the manifolds was a set of 21/4-inch head pipe extensions 24 inches long. So equipped, the 360 put out a respect- able 311 hp at 4,600 rpm and 403 lb-ft of torque.

We moved up a notch from the early 318 iron manifolds to late 360 iron log-style manifolds. The 360 manifolds are nothing to look at, but the internal passages and outlet are significantly larger than those of the 318 pieces. Power was up a little, moving to 314 hp and 407.1 lb-ft
'

Our final test of factory iron was a set of rare and expensive early 340 high-performance manifolds. With the 340 exhaust, the 360 inched up to 315 hp and 409.1 lb-ft of torque, which represented very little gain on this engine.

The layout of TTI's headers is unique, with none of the low-hanging tubes of the other designs and ample clearance for the plug wires up top. Past experience has shown they have excellent chassis fit. Power output with the tti's was the best of all the systems we tested, clearing 327 hp and producing a healthy 425.5 lb-ft of torque.
 
I am going to stay with the stock type exhaust on my car. 1) It's original and I am trying to restore not hot rod. 2)Headers are usually a pain to install and maintain. Gaskets blow out more often and spark plugs and wires can be impossible sometimes, and don't even think about starters. 3) If your searching for horsepower and are racing competitively, $500-$1000
spent to gain 10 to 20 h.p. makes more sense.
A good flowing stock type exhaust with some nice mufflers is pretty hard to beat for most street cars. Most Mopars came with a pretty efficient dual exhaust system and I really like that factory Mopar sound.

toolmanmike
 
I got some hookers, and wedged them into my '76 duster with a 318. I wish i'd gone with stock manifolds, or bought the TTIs. If you have the time, it's not impossible, but with a 318, go with the manifolds. My 2 cents.
 
Last Mopar car show I went to I wondered why non of the A-Bodies had headers on them. After installing a set of cheapy Flowtechs on my 318 Dart Sport, I now know why (all the reasons stated above). A lot of people praise the TTI's, however paying $600 for 10-20 horsepower is not cost effective. For a cost of TTI's I'd rather run stock exhaust manifolds with duals and spend that money on a nitrous kit.
 
I have Hedman headers in my a-body 68 Barracuda. There are some compromises to be made; less ground clearance, more noise shorter life expectancy. But, though more involved than manifolds they were not hard to install. Dropping the center link is a non issue in my book, takes 5 minutes as is jacking the engine some for more clearance. Factoring in that I have had one starter failure in all most a million accumulated miles of driving over the past 25 years worrying about how hard it is to change a starter is not a consideration. The only spark plug wire issues are cylinders 5 and 7 and that is easily corrected with a couple of wires with 90 degree boots that are attached from below.

I probally wouldn't choose headers for a year round daily driver but for a weekend toy I wouldn't not have them.
 
i have headmans on my 70 dart-i wish i would of went with the TTI's or manifolds-i didnt have much problem with installation since my engine was out when i did it-but getting them to seal is the problem
 
I will ad that if you go with a mini starter there's no clearance problems at all. I did and I can R&R my starter with no problem at all without touching the header. Another nice thing about the mini starter is it don't weigh a ton like the old ones.
As far as the power improvement gains seen by headers. I believe that is proportional to the ammount of horsepower your engine is allready making. Yes on a 300 hp engine (like the one in the magazine test above) the gains were only about 15-20 hp. But on a 400+ hp engine the airflow through that engine would be much greater so the need for a better flowing exhaust manifold would be there thus the improvement in HP from headers would be greater. I don't have any technical facts to back this up, just my thoughts. If anyone has anything to prove otherwise please chime in.
 
yep , tti is the way to go in an A body. they are expensive, but the quality of the header to head flange, the mandrel bends and especially how they tuck close to the underside(better than all others) is worth it. no other brands compare.
 
I'm using Schmacher Tri-Y's on the 383 in my 71 Demon with no problems. The most important consideration for installing headers on any engine is what you hope to gain all the while considering the pain that some can be for installation and cost. Headers are a waste of good money if your engine is basically stock with no carb, camshaft or intake manifold modifications. A good 2 1/2" dual exhaust is the best investment. My 2 cents. :evil2:
 
I'm in the middle of a header installation right now (Hooker comps) on my '69 Valiant and I seriously wish I just stuck with the manifolds and got a dual exhaust setup from there.
Why? Because I'm running into problem after problem before even getting to try and get the headers in. First it was the driver side engine mount not unbolting, needed an impact wrench and a swivel socket I eventually figured out. Now it's the starter and oil filter adapter not coming off... But what was supposed to be a weekend project has taken two weeks now (granted, I don't have much time to work on it because of my work schedule and nobody helping...)
 
HP 340 Manifolds to a 2 1/2 exhaust sys. is the hot ticket.Have them Jet hot coated and never have the issues I have had.I have TTIs and and will never buy them again.They still dont fit on the rt steering tie rod and the drivers side frame rail.Also the manual steering is barely cleared.The 340 engine is on stock mounts and installed correctly. headers are not worth it........They now make aftermarket HP manifolds,but they are kinda spendy
 
As stated above, the reason I went with Headmans is for the simple fact that I am pushing well over 300hp. Manifolds would have choked the thing to death, and I'm not paying $700 for something I drive on the weekends and an ocasional weeknight. If you can ever get the stupid things on your car, have some good skid plates welded up to help out with the low hang. And the ultimate fix for your plug wires can be found here:
http://www.wrenchrat.com/
 
bandit340 said:
HP 340 Manifolds to a 2 1/2 exhaust sys. is the hot ticket.Have them Jet hot coated and never have the issues I have had.I have TTIs and and will never buy them again.They still dont fit on the rt steering tie rod and the drivers side frame rail.Also the manual steering is barely cleared.The 340 engine is on stock mounts and installed correctly. headers are not worth it........They now make aftermarket HP manifolds,but they are kinda spendy


FWIW, this months issue of Mopar Collectors Guide had pictures of new 340HP manifolds. Don't recall who was reproducing them but it should knock the bottom out of the pricing of used ones.
 
Dave, you're truly an optimist! :thumblef: I was thinking the manufacturer will probably boost the cost, since headers and OEM manifolds are so high priced already that they can probably get away with charging an astronomical price right out of the gate. And to think, I'm an optimist also. :drinkers:
 
I installed the Summit Racing headers ($99) on my Demon. They were a tite fit but only took a few minutes to put in because the engine was out when I did it. I simply put them in place then lowered the engine into place. I was not able to get the stock starter to fit so I ended up buying a mini starter from a Dodge Ram. The starter ($130) cost more than the headers but I think in the end it was worth it... I have heard the TTIs are nice but I could never justify spending that much on headers.
 
Has anyone used the dynomax headers that summit sells or the hedman shorty headers? I imagine the shorty headers would be as easy to use as manifolds.
 
dgc333 said:
FWIW, this months issue of Mopar Collectors Guide had pictures of new 340HP manifolds. Don't recall who was reproducing them but it should knock the bottom out of the pricing of used ones.



The repops are $600 so real ones cost less and have casting dates and numbers.
 
o.k. next question.The moter came with the headers he had(i know they wont fit)does any one have any manifolds for sale and can i use the 340 ones with no problems?
 
340 manifolds will work fine on your 318. If you don't get any replies here from guys having any for sale I saw a bunch on E-bay the other day. You gotta watch though because alot of guys are trying to pass off regular 318 and 360 manifolds as the high dollar 340 manifolds.
 
Wow... I saw one person say something about Schmacher? Let me tell you something guys. I have a friend 440 in his 72... takes him 10 minutes to take the starter off (not a mini starter) and replace it... unbolt the header and pull it out as easy as pie. TTI in my opinion makes some awesome headers that fit nice but I agree unless you are searching for about 450 and up no need for them. I have seen Hi Po 340 manifolds making 500 numbers being ported out though. I say either buy a cheap set of headers or get the Hi Po 340 manifolds and port them out a bit and go with them. Run duals all the way back with a hi flow muffler and your in business!
 
What about these manifolds
EX891.gif
from the 80's 318/360 truck engines?

I kind of like the looks of them and will probably wind up getting a set ceramic coated and using them on a fairly mild 360 in my '68 Barracuda.

Jay

EX891.gif
 
They won't clear the steering box. There was thread on here awhile back that pointed to a link with a story and howto where a guy found some truck manifolds from certain years that rear dumped, though. They worked great, but I can't remember what years they were...
 
Ace said:
They won't clear the steering box.

D@mn... LOL... So basically almost nothing fits!!!

I think I saw that post though...I don't remember what years either off the top of my head, but I think they were from Dakotas...

Thanks, good to find that out before I bought parts.

Jay
 
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