Help Me Cool Down

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Oldmanmopar said:
If you have a thermostat you should be OK. But Cavitation can also be before the pump if there is air there. I will post a picture of how they did away with the question of that with a petcock put in the $400 pump . The cavitation I am talking about is created when the motor is at idle.

If the water flows from the motor with no restriction at all. The free flow does not allow the pump to pressurize the coolant in the block. With out pressure in the block by the coolant running out as fast as it enters. It causes air pockets and bubbles to form at the top of the block and in the head. this makes more heat up there and causes the temp to rise while idling if your sender is still in the coolant.

I have an electric pump which is always at max flow it is not hindered by RPMs so a 1 inch works fine for me . If a manual pump is used you may need a smaller hole than a 1" at idle. do to the fact your water pressure going in is less.
That is why they sell three different 1" 3/4" AND 5/8". We made our own in 1/16 increments.No motor is the same . it depends on the Pump flow , and the cylinder wall thickness and the coolant passages. also type of head

The idea is to keep the air bubbles comming out of the pump from cavitating in the top of the block or heads We checked this with a infa-red temp. gauge. While idling we checked the head and block temp and compared it to the bottom of the cylinder. If there is an air cavity the reading will be much greater than the bottom. This will distort the cylinder and can cause damage. The best way we found is to run the smallest you can without it running hot at RPM's. The more pressure you can create without effecting the the high RPM cooling the better you are.

Pressure in most blocks could be up to 22# very hard to measure before the stat. That has nothing to do with the cap PSI .because the bottom hose is pulling coolant lowering the pressure in the rad. The idea is to use pressure to keep the top of the cylinders and the head full at idle with a manual pump . If the water flows out of the block without resistance it will cavitate. This is a common problem. and the cause of most detonation . The factory thermostat is designed for a standard cyl. wall thickness . Good race cars are tested and restricted accordingly.

You may be good but it doesn't hurt to check. Take your stat out and try a 3/4". See if it still runs hot at idle. and the same as it did at rpm's as with the stat. You can go smaller if it still runs cool at RPM's. As soon as you see it is raising the temp at RPM's your to small. go back to the next size bigger.

That is the reason we made are own with 1/16 increments. He wanted it perfect for the street. In a NASCAR they only worry about the temp at RPMs. A one inch hose is good . Tony Hirschman showed me this, He builds Modified NASCAR's and is on Kyle bush's team. His son Matt is the East coast champion. in Modified NASCAR . That is where they designed my cooling system for my NASCAR truck motor in my street car at the time. Kyle bush is amazed at what Tony does . I idled around with 12 1/2 -1 all day. on pump gas. I could take the car to 9000 on the street as long as it didn't load the motor at RPMs . and It didn't, It would turn the tires in drive. But on the track with slicks different story It needed race fuel.

The car never ran hot with this system when he did it. as long as the motor is full to the top at all rpm's you should be good. My son has built Nitro and methanol motors. diesel pullers. and big liquid bikes. He does work for Hirschman's on the Chassis in return for the fragola braided parts and help we get there. We walk out with what ever we might need . It saves the many trips and time if you have to buy what you think you may need one at a time.

Trust me I would not steer you wrong. My son and Tony play with whats new not what use to be. All you can do is try a re-stricter. It may be your problem. Only you can test it. Remember go smaller one size at a time. once you raise the temp at RPMs go back to the last size. Stats usually flow 1" some 3/4" as we have seen. There is logic to why they sell these restrictors. Once you have the right size take a ball and some sort of die and taper the re-strictor put the protruding side toward the hose. Good luck

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Wow. Just wow.
 
mopowers said:
Where do you read this stuff???
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Are you actually that stupid.? I thought you were actually smarter than that. You actually are living in your own world of stupidity. Maybe before you doubt what I am saying you should do some research on preventing steam pockets in an engine block.

You definitely must be a west coast liberal. Go ask a illegal immigrant in your state. They are smarter then all of you out there in the sanctuary states. They sure took advantage of all your stupidity. Your citizens are living on the streets and the illegals get housing. Don't even try and call me out if you are that ignorant to learning . You my friend should wake up and smell the coffee.

Don't worry we still love you west coast leftists. The lord said forgive them because they know not what they do. Your advice goes nowhere unless it is about taking some of these homeless neighbors in.

I have learned from some of the most popular names in racing. I would believe the men and women that actually build race cars . Not some of your candy *** ride wanna be.

I have seen some of your threads . You my friend ask for some really stupid advice on common sense issues. You should not try and teach me anything. Troll on , You don't have a clue on anything auto related from what I have read in your own thread. PM your buddy out there "Yellow fish with no teeth just lips" He'll school you , He knows everything.

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yellow rose said:
Wow. Just wow.
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Wow what? Why don't you go to a site where you can hang with your ANTIFA pal's. maybe you can help the homeless out there with your Good buddies. Do you know what the definition of a good buddy is?

A buddy is someone who gets something and comes back and tells his buddy,

A good buddy is someone who gets two and comes back an gives his buddy one.

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yellow rose said:
Are you making 700 HP at idle or cruise? There's more to it than max HP.

Maybe you are turning the pump too slow. I'm 6% over and would get 10-12 if I could get the pulleys.
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I don't remember what the torque was at idle , but IT would astound you , it did me , "if" its true.
Horse power output doesn`t make any diff. setting at a stop light , in town , when it`s 98* and 90% humidity in Okla. , when u have an overstuffed big block setting in a small engine bay like these A body barracudas have ----------jmo .
 
AJ/FormS said:
OK to summarize;
You need a waterpump with an anti-cavitation plate, a hi-flo stat, a 7 blade all-steel , hi-attack angle fan like the one shown below, with a thermostatic clutch, and a lower hose that is guaranteed not to get sucked flat, adequate exhaust flow and fresh cold air into the carb.
(EDIT; I also severely restricted my bypass hose., but still run a heatercore.)
Now when properly installed, the pump can be underdriven a lil, and the engine idled down to 650.
Proper installation means the fan cannot pull air from the engine side of the rad, and the rad is sealed to the incoming air stream. No worries, the 7 blader, when the clutch kicks in, will push all the hot air out, no hood venting required. Well with a turbo, maybe not all the hot-air will leave,lol.
After you get this set-up, the temperature differential between the top of the rad and the bottom should be a minimum of 30*F, with the hood closed, and idling at a stop. If it isn't, then install a shroud.
This system has more than adequately cooled my aluminum headed NA 367 in every iteration it has seen, with cylinder pressure above 177psi in every case, and including the mighty 292/292/108 cam.... but see, I have TTI headers and full length dual 3"pipes, and a big ol' hole in my hood sealed to the carb, directing fresh cold air into her. This system works so good, I run a minimum coolant temp of 207*F and a 7psi cap.
I and others are telling you what works.
But if you are building boost at idle, all bets are off.
You are free to spend your money any way you want to.

Oh, BTW, My rad is an ancient model, I plucked from a 1973Dart with A/C. After I proved the system worked with 100% water, I eventually swapped to 50/50 ant-freeze; so I wouldn't have to drain the water every fall, cuz; you know, I was getting older, and finding those petcocks on a lowered car was getting to be a PITA. The system continued to function as it did with pure water.
Because that 7-blader/with thermostatic clutch, is freakishly heavy, I went with a HD 8-vane pump with its larger impeller shaft, and assumed to be, heavier-duty bearings. That was 2001, and it's still on that engine; from a time standpoint that pump is the cheapest pump I ever bought..
If you are hesitant to install a real fan,on account of some stoopid video you saw that said your fan will suck 35 horsepower at 7000 rpm, then give your head a shake. Firstly your T-clutch will not be powered up at 7000, and Secondly; even if it was, you got a turbo, and Thirdly; if you can spin the tires to 60 mph what the heck does it even matter?
Thanks to Oldmanmopar for this pic
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Mine cools better w/ a mech. fan than w/ a clutch type. I have mine working pretty good now , 192-205 in the heat . I am going to try a 1" bigger alum. fan on the new jaguar (short) clutch that I pulled off tho , have to cut out the shroud a hair , when I get around to it , just because of the perf. part of it .
No way mine will idle down to 650 either .
I would over drive the pump if I could come up w/ a suitable pulley , like YR said ----
 
Oldmanmopar said:

One warm up pass around the pits two when its cold and the rest of the day we were running the pump and fans to get it cool for the next round. One inch seams to work the best as per the Direct Connection 50 yr old manual.

I have seen guys use a ball and homemade die to hammer a taper in the hole. Face the protruding side toward the hose. Thermostats usually fail closed. The washer eliminates the chance of it happening and watering down the track and the rear tires on the big end..

I have two bottles on the car One recovery and one catch can hooked to the top of the recovery that is mounted in front of the tire under the fender. You can see the line going to the catch can through the existing hole for the battery tray with the rubber grommet installed .

On a NASCAR they blow the steam out of the drivers side hood to keep it off the rear tires especialy the left/outside tire. After every 1/4 mile pass we drain the catch can. You cannot do that on a 300-500 mile race, And dirt cars the water just makes the track tackier.

I don't drive my car in the winter and I don't have a heater core hooked up. I cover the outlets with the coil.

The defrosters still clear the windshield on the inside and the wipers on the outside for night racing. Or when I get excited and start breathing heavy.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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LOL
 
famous bob said:
Mine cools better w/ a mech. fan than w/ a clutch type. I have mine working pretty good now , 192-205 in the heat . I am going to try a 1" bigger alum. fan on the new jaguar (short) clutch that I pulled off tho , have to cut out the shroud a hair , when I get around to it , just because of the perf. part of it .
No way mine will idle down to 650 either .
I would over drive the pump if I could come up w/ a suitable pulley , like YR said ----
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I always liked the mechanical fan myself. . I just put a clutch fan on the brown Duster because I have several and I have to use them on something. Clutch fans work good. but do fail. I once was in NY late in the evening wit a 69 dart with air. I kicked it into passing gear and the fan took out the radiator shroud and belts. I wasn't finding parts to get home . over a $500 tow bill. That was my last time I trusted a clutch fan for me. They are good for anyone else in my eye's. I like the factory 7 blade fans. I gave one to Dave for his big block Valiant. After market aluminum and fiberglass fans are good, They were good for taking out hoods and radiators. I would buy the cars cheap then. Probably still have parts from some of those cars. LOL
 
Oldmanmopar said:
I always liked the mechanical fan myself. . I just put a clutch fan on the brown Duster because I have several and I have to use them on something. Clutch fans work good. but do fail. I once was in NY late in the evening wit a 69 dart with air. I kicked it into passing gear and the fan took out the radiator shroud and belts. I wasn't finding parts to get home . over a $500 tow bill. That was my last time I trusted a clutch fan for me. They are good for anyone else in my eye's. I like the factory 7 blade fans. I gave one to Dave for his big block Valiant. After market aluminum and fiberglass fans are good, They were good for taking out hoods and radiators. I would buy the cars cheap then. Probably still have parts from some of those cars. LOL
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Didn't the factory have some alum, fans on clutch types ?? Think I`ve got a 17'' . ??????

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I believe they did. But when OEM they were a lot stronger then the old aftermarket flex fans. That is a nice fan. Is it a mopar fan and what is it off of? I like it. It is the correct dirrection.

We had a guy come here with a v-belt fan on a serpentine belt truck. It would run cool all day sitting here with the hood open or closed. As soon as you took it for a ride it would get hot instantly. It took my son a whole day to finally figure out the fan was pushing the air forward. It was at three other speed shops they put head gaskets , water pumps V-belt style. Radiator and. belts. they even studed the block which ruined the bores. That was the talk of the shop.

He ended up being a full time customer with all his vehicles. Even his Diesel tri-axles. It was a 91 chevy with a older 415 stroker out of a 70 chevelle drag car. They were even running the wrong pump from the 70 v-belt style.

I learned something that day from my son. Which I would never admit. I told him I knew it all along and just wanted to see if he could find it. LOL
 
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7 blade is over 19", 5 blade is approx. 18", both aluminum and factory mopar.
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My personal favorite. 18" factory flex fan in steel.


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