Hey Del 110-220 piggy back?

[mguner]

I know it's not code but I ran 8ga with ground for my 220 welder circuits and was wanting to pull a super 110 off of one side or the other for my small wire welder outlet too. It is a metal building with metal frame and well grounded and I am using the ground wires in the box too. I live outside of code restrictions. Is there any real danger on this setup? All is in EMT conduit. I will never be using both at the same time.

BD

 

[momoparman]

RIP brother.

You need a neutral for your 120?

220 is two hots and a ground.
120 is one hot one neutral and a ground.

You need to run a separate 3 wire circuit for 120-volts. Use #12ga copper wire and a 20-amp circuit breaker.

Don't play with electricity the wrong way or you wont be around much longer.

Doesn't matter where you live. There is only one code and one way to install electrical devices. The right way. :cheers:

 

[mguner]

My neutral and ground are one in the same, in other words the white and the plain copper both tie into the ground strip in the box. All I would do is pull off one side of the 220 and from the white common and of course still twist the plain coppers together. It seems such a waste of 8ga wire not to use it. The only reason I think it became a code issue was because of wood frame and old wire without the ground built in. I'm running the good stuff in a metal frame that is well grounded.

 

[67Dart273]

Not real clear.........do you have access to all 4 wires?

The correct answer is you need 4 wires, or at least both a neutral and ground and one hot,..........but..........

Here's the thing.

"In the beginning" when the antique electrical system started, "neutral" and 'ground' sort of amounted to the same thing

Here's how this works "most places."

From your pole is ONLY THREE conductors.......the two 240 "hot" which are 120V to ground/ neutral, and the grounded/ grounding / neutral conductor, sometimes bare aluminum in overhead household wiring.

SO THAT BARE conductor is in fact "both" neutral and ground

At the main box / meter / disconnect, the big bare aluminum connects to the following:

The metal box

the neutral buss in that box

a "code" ground rod

THIS IS WHERE stuff gets sticky, because FROM that point, that neutral buss, which is in fact "same as ground" in that box, there is NO OTHER place that the neutral and the "safety" or "green" "ground" come together, even though they started out "same" at the main box.

NOW ONWARDS TO your garage.

If you have a box in the garage, a "sub" generally you have a feeder off your main box from a breaker, so you have either 3 or 4 wires, certainly the "two hots" and neutral, and if 4, also a green ground

THE NEUTRAL buss in the sub box is NOT hooked to the box, or a ground rod, but rather is INSULATED just as if it is a "hot."

The ground (green) is hooked to the box, or at very least the box has a ground rod, and should, anyhow. "to the box" and that is where the 'garage' ground "green" hooks.

===============================

"So what" do you do? Answer? I don't know. Here's what I do and IT IS CHEATING but the only time I do this is when I really need to

I have and interesting situation because the meter / disconnect is at the garage!!! So the "house" box is really a sub of that.

This means that my welder recep, which is about "1 foot long" has the ground hooked to the main box, and it is essentially "same as" neutral and ground.

I therefore "fear not" when "cheating" and using the GROUNDING terminal of the welder connector as a 120V take off.

 

[mguner]

I think I'm clear on what you are saying there. My Shop is on its own box and I do have access to all 4 wires in the circuit so it should be pretty straight forward from there. I'm no electrician but I have been playing one with some help from friends that are. Always good to have input from experience.... THX!