Holley instructions contradicting on fuel bowl level ??

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DartThis74

DartThis74

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I'm needing to adjust my fuel bowl level on my XP Ultra #80802 On their website instructional download they said when looking through the clear sight glass the fuel should be midway up the glass when properly adjusted, everywhere else i'm reading and even on Holley's youtube instructional they said it should barely trickle out the sight hole or barley below sight glass,when engine is rocked side to side... What is right ? Additionally when I tried to adjust the fuel level screw I found that there was nothing to grab and turn it was flush to the bowl base... The front bowl is sticking up above with enough to turn with the nut.. What could cause this ?

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What is causing the needle to be so low that the nut can't even turn it ? This is the position the needle is in prior to raising the fuel level that was below the sight glass.


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I went back and forth with the same dilemma many times, without the sight glass adjustment is made up to bottom, with sight glass it is mid point, on my Ultra 670 I am just slightly over half. The float adjustment screws sound like their out from each other, there should be screw slots once you take the cap off that is in the top of the needle. One thing I had to do was after adjusting was to drive and burn the fuel out of the bowl, there was a process I found that described how to do it without driving but I never could make it work, the rear bowl would not dump at all and the front didn't dump as much, set them close as you can with each other to about mid way, take it for a drive and carry the tools to adjust on the road. another thing, it looks like your missing a nut on the needle, called the adjusting nut, Im guessing your starving for fuel
 
billsdartgt said:
the rear bowl would not dump at all and the front didn't dump as much, set them close as you can with each other to about mid way, take it for a drive and carry the tools to adjust on the road. another thing, it looks like your missing a nut on the needle
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This is what is happening. The front bowl is set nice right above the bottom of sight glass and the rear bowl just fills up and overflows rapidly. I can't figure out why.
 
DartThis74 said:
This is what is happening. The front bowl is set nice right above the bottom of sight glass and the rear bowl just fills up and overflows rapidly. I can't figure out why.
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Sounds like you have a needle and seat leaking or some debris is stuck in it holding it open. I would replace both needles and seats and adjust them the way the instructions say.
 
DartThis74 said:
This is what is happening. The front bowl is set nice right above the bottom of sight glass and the rear bowl just fills up and overflows rapidly. I can't figure out why.
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2 things, one is easy to check the other you would need to take the bowl off to check. most of the needle valves have slots in them to use a screwdriver on, try to screw the one down if possible, if that is the one that is flush already you might have to take the bowl apart, something could be messed up with the seat, see if you can adjust the one that is overflowing to match the one that seems ok, on mine they appear to be matched perfectly to the naked eye
 
The difference I believe is the application for a "plug" and a "glass". Which was you carb designed with and what are the directions for it.?
A weak float, faulty needle and seat, high fuel pressure are a few items that may cause your flooding issue.
 
brian6pac said:
Sounds like you have a needle and seat leaking or some debris is stuck in it holding it open. I would replace both needles and seats and adjust them the way the instructions say.
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Some shop around town replaced my old junk carb with this one so i'm learning about this stuff now. But the needle looks exactly like this from jegs and same size with the round bullet tip needle. Says this is for alcohol ?? I suspect I don't need alcohol needle ?

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Daves69 said:
The difference I believe is the application for a "plug" and a "glass". Which was you carb designed with and what are the directions for it.?
A weak float, faulty needle and seat, high fuel pressure are a few items that may cause your flooding issue.
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It is exact same carb as the first holley carb picture with the clear windows. The needle was already flush when I went to try and adjust and I thought that was odd. But the car ran nice and smooth at idle, but I noticed when I hard accelerated it did a little stutter so I thought i needed to bring to fuel levels up a tiny bit because of the levels being just at the bottom of the sight glass, where the picture above says it needs to be at the middle.
 
DartThis74 said:
It is exact same carb as the first holley carb picture with the clear windows. The needle was already flush when I went to try and adjust and I thought that was odd. But the car ran nice and smooth at idle, but I noticed when I hard accelerated it did a little stutter so I thought i needed to bring to fuel levels up a tiny bit because of the levels being just at the bottom of the sight glass, where the picture above says it needs to be at the middle.
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Dave is correct. The old, junk bowls had the single sight plug, which you set the float to have the fuel just trickle out.

The new, nice bowls have a sight window in them. With those you set the fuel level half way up the sight glass.

If you take the two float bowls and set them side by each, you'll see that when setting either bowl to the correct float level for the bowl you are talking about, they come out to exactly the same float level.

The sight window is bigger than the sight plug is why there is a difference. But the float level ends up the same.
 
DartThis74 said:
Some shop around town replaced my old junk carb with this one so i'm learning about this stuff now. But the needle looks exactly like this from jegs and same size with the round bullet tip needle. Says this is for alcohol ?? I suspect I don't need alcohol needle ?

View attachment 1715398723
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If you are going to replace the needle and seats, a .110 or .120 is plenty big. You don't need that .150 needle and seat.
 
yellow rose said:
If you are going to replace the needle and seats, a .110 or .120 is plenty big. You don't need that .150 needle and seat.
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Do you believe that because of such a large needle that is why it was cranked all the way down until it bottomed out just to keep the level of fuel at the bottom of sight glass or is the internal screw as stated from others something to cause this issue being inserted too far?
 
not the quickest option but I suggest you remove the bowl to confirm all is good, replace the needle with a 110, that's what is in my 670, if the carb has some age go ahead and replace the float while apart, cheap enough
 
billsdartgt said:
not the quickest option but I suggest you remove the bowl to confirm all is good, replace the needle with a 110, that's what is in my 670, if the carb has some age go ahead and replace the float while apart, cheap enough
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This is the suggested assembly ?

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Sometimes gas (being less viscous )can be harder to seal the alchohol N+S. Sooner or later they will give this trouble again. Get the N+S in the picture, and report back if still have the adjustment issue.
 
Dana said:
Sometimes gas (being less viscous )can be harder to seal the alchohol N+S. Sooner or later they will give this trouble again. Get the N+S in the picture, and report back if still have the adjustment issue.
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I definitely will. I'd hate to take the bowl off to adjust, but i'm also curious how this all works too since it's my first try at low grade "carb repair" What is kind of bothering me is that when I got this new carb about 2 years ago from a speed shop near me they had it tuned up nicely, but come to find out it was just dumping fuel into the engine and the plugs were solid black after some time come to find out. I took it to a different shop near by me that specializes in older classic vehicles and they retuned it, but I'm noticing a little less pep in the engine and doesn't kickdown like it should. The little tiny stutter when hard accelerating got me digging into the fuel level and all of this is coming from that now and finding out the seat size is very large and the needles are almost fully seated just to keep the fuel level just at the sight glass level.
 
One reason not to use those bigger needle and seats is as they get bigger, they are harder to seal. Also, they are harder to control. I'm saying as the needle and seat gets bigger, the fuel pushing on the needle has more surface area and therefore, at the same pressure is pushing harder on the needle trying to push it off the seat.

Before I spent 16 bucks with jegs, I'd call down to BLP and ask them about their bottom feed needle and seats. I use their .120 and it actually aerates the fuel much less going into the bowl. One bad thing (if it really is bad, I didn't think it was) is you must remove the fuel bowl to install the needle and seat. You can't just drop it on, or the needle will just fall out. But, any time I change the needle and seats, I just take the bowls off. That way I can dry set the things and be really close on start up.

If you want to pull the bowls and set the N&S, you adjust the float until it is parallel to the top of the float bowl body. That will get you real close and you can adjust it from there.

Also, if you run an electric pump, make sure the engine is running when you set the float level.
 
Also, if it was me, and if you don't have them, order some nylon gaskets for the N&S. They dont leak, or tear or any of that crap.
 
I too would not spend any money on new inlet valve until try adjusting what is there.

The small sight plugs, fuel is around the bottom. On older and OEM carbs, you may find different hieght plugs for the priumary and secondary bowls.
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The large sight glass bowls, fuel level is about centered in the glass.
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Not sure what you have there in that photo at the top.
Check it this way:
Fuel level should be around the top emulsion hole. Definately should be below the angle passage to the boosters.
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Take a pencil and draw a line parallel to the ground from the bottom of the sight plug to the side of the metering block.
Take the bowl and block off and see where that pencil line falls.

Draw a line right from the outside right across the face if you have to.
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Set the fuel level dry by turning the bowl upside down, adjust the float so its about level, that should get it ballparked.
In this photo you can see the casting line is about even with the bottom of the site plug.
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Here's a photo of the Udusting nut, the lock screw and the the two washers mentioned earlier in the thread.
These happened to by nylon washers. The good news is they won't tear up easily.
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The downside of nylon washers is they can get a little soft with enough heat.
So I'm not a fan of nylon washers anymore - not in situations where they can get heat soaked. If your just taking it to the track,and many other situations they are fine. Anyway they will work, unless they get too hot. Just have some spares on hand. The only time I had a problem was after a 4 or 5 hours in hills and brisk interstate speeds followed by getting stuck in traffic at crawling speeds. The ones that went were the bowl inlets , not the ones we're talking about. It just made me cautious as it was plenty of fuel on the intake - could have ended real badly.
 
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Mattax said:
I too would not spend any money on new inlet valve until try adjusting what is there.

The large sight glass bowls, fuel level is about centered in the glass.
View attachment 1715398750

Set the fuel level dry by turning the bowl upside down, adjust the float so its about level, that should get it ballparked.
In this photo you can see the casting line is about even with the bottom of the site plug.
View attachment 1715398752
Click to expand...

You are correct, I have the sight glass so fuel will need to be middle of window.

As for the needle. 2 things are going on. The size I found that was installed is .150, secondly the needle is fully seated on my secondary (seen in first post picture) and it's still flooding badly.
 
Just to clarify
Its not a matter of whether the sight plug is clear or not. There are clear plugs that screw into the site plug location.
Its a matter of placement. The middle of the large windows is about the same as the bottom of the threaded plugs.
The window types do not screw in. Look at the position in the carbs I posted.

As far as the adjustments having run out. Take it off and see what's going on.
I agree with what was said by the others. Was just posting photos to clarify.
 
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