how much compression for pump gas

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dogdart65

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I'm getting ready to assemble my new 360, andwanting to know how much comp. ratio I can really get away with on 93 octane? It's a 360 +.030 w/K.B. flat tops, .020 in the hole. I'd like to deck the heads to gain some quench. The heads are ported X's w/ 69 cc's. Cam specs are 246 @ .050 , .539", 110 c.l. I have plenty of clearence , and could deck the heads as much as .060" w/.040 gasket. 64 cc's would get me right @ 10.0:1
 
I am running 10.6:1 with closed chamber magnum heads and zero decked KB107 pistons. I can get away with 89 octane with no audible detonation.
 
"Quench" and "X heads" cannot be used in the same sentence unless the word "no" preceeds the quench part...:D.
The probelm is, the chamber design and shape prevents any quenching areas from forming, unless things are modified and the right piston is used. Flat tops are not the right piston. Do you have the cam card or part number handy? I need the intake valve closing point @ .050 lift. I'm showing around 9.5:1 with the std Fel Pro gaskets now. I took a stab at the intake closing, I put it around 41° ABDC, and that's coming up with 8.1 dynamic. You are right on the edge of detonation now using those numbers. The time to design the engine to maximize quench has passed. You can't get any with what you now have to use. So I would ignore it for now. The best deal would have been to build the shortblock with the pistons set at zero deck. Then later you're a head change away from a tight quench and better heads. With them .020 down, you will need special gaskets, and special ultra smooth deck finish to run them, just to get a decent quench.
 
i have ran up to 12 to 1 on pump gas with octane booster( like the kind you can get at any part store ) never had any problems it just depends on how far/close you are to sea level
 
FWIW,

I read an article where they did some testing on various octane boosters. Basically what they said was if you use the over the shelf bottled stuff you on raise the octane of the fuel a few tenths of one octane number. When you see adds about it raising octane by 4 or 5 points what they really mean is 0.4 or 0.5.

So, 93 octane with the prescribed amount of octane booster will be 93.4 or 93.5. The article also said that adding more than the prescribed amount provided diminishing results so quickly pass the price of race fuel.
 
Cam timing events are ; Ex. open 53 B.B.D.C. Ex. close 13A.T.D.C. Int. open 13 B.T.D.C. Int. close 53 A.B.D.C. By quench , I'm saying you still have a shallow side of an open combustion chamber. Aprox. .065" from the deck surface. W/ .020" in the hole and .040" gasket.... D'd like to tighten that up , to effectively provide some "QUENCH". Cam timing events are at 1.5 rocker ratio, I'll be using 1.6, not sure exactly how much that effects duration @ .050" I used the calculaters on K.B.' site, effective comp. was about 7.8-7.9
 
Also , I know idealy this should have been 0-decked , but it's too late for that.This is a true "BUDGET" build, I need to total all cost's, but about $3200 comlete, less carb & ign.
 
dogdart65 said:
Cam timing events are ; Ex. open 53 B.B.D.C. Ex. close 13A.T.D.C. Int. open 13 B.T.D.C. Int. close 53 A.B.D.C. By quench , I'm saying you still have a shallow side of an open combustion chamber. Aprox. .065" from the deck surface. W/ .020" in the hole and .040" gasket.... D'd like to tighten that up , to effectively provide some "QUENCH". Cam timing events are at 1.5 rocker ratio, I'll be using 1.6, not sure exactly how much that effects duration @ .050" I used the calculaters on K.B.' site, effective comp. was about 7.8-7.9
And what Moper and others are saying is if the quench distance is not within .050"max you will never get any quench - thus .020 + .040 + .065 = .125". you would need to machine all the CC chamber away and use .025 th gasket to get .045 for quench - and a whole lot of other trouble/interference etc.
Go with the shaving of the heads to get 10;1 CR and put it together.
 
Interesting specs. That closing point would be "normal" on a much larger cam. So it will bleed a ton off at idle and low speed. You can try to lower that roof as much as you want. No way it will efver have any quench value. But that cam will tolerate a bit more static ratio without problems. I aim for dynamic of 8-8.1 max on iron heads and torque peaks below 3500. I'll go as high as 8.5:1 with alumimnum, decent quench, and higher peaks. You could mill the heads, but you'll need to mill the intake flanges too, adn probably either buy shorter pushrods, or rocker shaft shims to get the geometry right. You're spending either way.


edit: IMO, you're overcammed. you could use a thin gasket (.020) and get 10:1. But a better cam choice with the less static will feel and be faster in a street/strip car.
 
moper said:
Interesting specs. That closing point would be "normal" on a much larger cam. So it will bleed a ton off at idle and low speed. You can try to lower that roof as much as you want. No way it will efver have any quench value. But that cam will tolerate a bit more static ratio without problems. I aim for dynamic of 8-8.1 max on iron heads and torque peaks below 3500. I'll go as high as 8.5:1 with alumimnum, decent quench, and higher peaks. You could mill the heads, but you'll need to mill the intake flanges too, adn probably either buy shorter pushrods, or rocker shaft shims to get the geometry right. You're spending either way.
In keeping with my budget , Im using a cam I had bought 8 years ago, and making it work. I already have a car w/ smaller cam , and want to push the limits. I haven't purchased pushrods , or head gaskets yet, so thats not a problem.I would like to get the Cometic mls gaskets , .040". Thays why I'd like to whack the heads about .050". I've shaved stock heads .060" before w/careful attention to valvetrain geometry, and that 360 still run strng. It's a'79 smogger w/dished pistons & .025" gaskets to get close to 9.2:1 , and runs on 89 octane.

edit: IMO, you're overcammed. you could use a thin gasket (.020) and get 10:1. But a better cam choice with the less static will feel and be faster in a street/strip car A lot of port work was done to the X heads, so I beleive they can support more cam.
 
Running 10.9 to 1 in my stroker,no problems using 93 pump gas.....
 
Yep to throw in what Moper said, if you enough cam IE overlap then your low rpm compression is reduced. So then you can get away with a higher static number. I guess the real awnser is what is the compression on a gauge while cranking?

Maybe we can start a list of cams, heads, pistons etc to build a real list? I kind of think that anything above 180 psi at cranking speed is about the limit on iron heads with 92 oct at sea level on a warm day? I know hemis, alum. heads, and a few others are more fogiving. But in the old days a semi stock cam in a 383 yeilded 240 with 10.5s. Man it was tuff even on 95 oct. for me as I recall :scratch:

Sometimes you gotta find a balance betweenhow much squize and how much you have to back off on the advance.

Thats why today we have cpu's in cars to tweak it as best possible. :headbang:
 
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