I got E-10 woes with "Charlotte"- water in gas and looking for a permanent fix!

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Gen2Cudas

Gen2Cudas

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Evening all. Been under our daughter's /6 'vert most of the day- and for the second time in a month or so. Picked up a full tank of E10 at a Wally World down here where we live back in late Feb. . .been using the place for years. . .and the slant started to cough and miss before we got out of the parking lot with it. Cursed and got the fuel dry into it- but it continued to give us fits off and on- like when climbing a hill. Finally couldn't stand it, started at the carb and pumped a beer bottle worth of the tank out through the hose after the filter (with the fuel pump with the coil wire pulled). Cloudy, then cleared with a 1/2 inch of water at the bottom of the bottle. Idle fine, but throttle up and it quits, drop in gear and quits, or stutters bad, no power just trying to hold 2000 RPM. . .

Got busy, got the tank pumped out, blew the lines, opened and cleaned the carb, new filter, poured some good gas to get it started and ran it down for a tankful from another place we use. Kept the bottle, figuring to show to the manager at the first place and negotiate a repayment. . .

Still having engine stutters, hard starting, some stalling. More fuel dry and Chemtool to get the rest of the water I missed. . .Run okay to drive around town- but on occasion a cough or stutter, or hard to keep running without racing the motor a bit . . .

Sat up for about 2 weeks; got it out, running okay, whole family in, drive around low speed backroads for a bit. . .then hit the local highway and Phooey! Stuttering, coughing, running on 3 or 4, barely able to keep it running long enough to get back to the house. Curse, go get more fuel dry and new filter. Pumped some into a container, appears clear. . .get stuff on it and in it, runs okay, test drive down 2 miles for a beer to celebrate- and simply will not start and run after we get back into it. Miss, backfire, stall, nothing and no way. Finally forced the poor thing down the road after a downhill run and abusing the starter like mad- will run after a fashion with a neutral start and drop in. . .then died next to the road with a carful. Just getting ready to tow it home and wife suggests try it- damn thing starts. Been sitting for about 30 mins. . .almost immediately starts running like before, but able to coax it to the house.

Pumped the tank for the second time. Checked the sending unit sock for obstruction while I was going that far too. Samples looked clear. . .then the sample I had taken the night before sitting on my bench uncapped for 15 hours suddenly went cloudy when I picked it up- and out coalesced a thimbleful of water! It was about 70 today with 30% humidity. . .not raining at the time. . .

Got under and pumped out the rest of the fuel in the tank from the sending hole- that went into a big bottle and capped- and damned if that stuff went cloudy and out drops about 4 thimble fulls of water after 30 mins setting there. Swabbed the tank dry too.

So, here I am, dry tank, clean lines, new filter, different sending unit in with good sock, new seal for tank, all lines hooked up- and scared to pour any more of this crap E10 into my girl's Barracuda 'vert. Obviously, gonna try a third station. . .

Any ideas guys? What in Heck are they selling us for fuel?!? My F-150 is running fine- but is down 1.2 mpg, a friend is down 2 mpg in an HHR 4 banger- and I have a slanty that seems totally allergic to this damned stuff!

Been reading up on this crap and have found how water loving and unstable this stuff is already. Thinking about putting a water filter system in at about $104 or so. . .and wondering what to pour all this stuff I have in gas cans through before I use it in my lawn mowers. Cheese cloth?

Or, make Molotov cocktails with it- if it will burn. . .;-)

Mike
 
Hello Mike,

I'm originally from IL where they have been selling E-10 since the 80's and I never had a running problem with any of my vehicles. It's humid as hell there too. I always bought name brand fuel and skipped the budget stuff. BUT, metal gas tanks would rot out pretty quickly there and rust in the filter, fuel pick-up sock and carb were a yearly maintenance issue.

Here in Colorado, they were using 10% MTBE but then they found that the stuff is deadly poisonous and doesn't degrade......ever. It's worse than lead, so it's back to 10% ethanol. The good thing is that it's dry as a witch's tit here in the southwest so water absorbtion isn't a big problem. Here's another big BUT though.... My truck will ping (10.2:1 CR) with 91 octane from the budget places but NOT from a Shell or Phillips 66. The price difference for a 28 gallon fill up is really less than 3 bucks so lesson learned. Get your fuel from a name brand place and pull your carb and check for water at the bottom of the float bowls.

On another note, my ex fiances' BMW X3 check engine light came on after a fill up from a no name truck stop on the way back from Kansas. She's a BMW master tech and hooked it up to the computer at work and found a bunch of lean codes (water in the fuel). She flushed the fuel system and filled it up with premium from the local Shell and no more problems..
 
Thanks Ramcharger. I was seriously thinking of the old style steel filter sleeve with the cartridge inside- kinda like the old diesel kind. . .or one of the old style tractor filter with the glass catcher and bale. Neither would look very pretty. Also running the notion of a sump valve like in the low side of airplane wing tanks. . .a pretty picture as well. Not. The marine engine guys are counseling a 2 micron filter and replace every 25 hours. . .this from Yamaha outboards announcement. . .

I got good Shell this morning in a can to get her started. Appears to be running okay, but a little hesitation and just a hint of miss at just-off-idle throttle. Am retarding the ignition timing a bit and readjusting the mixture- will see. Be a hell of a note if I have to run a stock compression slant 6 on 93 octane Shell just to be able to enjoy it and not have it be an iffy proposition driving it from town to town on the highway.

I am gonna talk to Slant 6 Dan about seals to take alcohol immersion in the carb- I already am using the alcohol tolerant EFI fuel line and the mod to avoid vapor lock. . .

Wish me luck. Sucks to see Mopar Power of whatever level on the side of the road. . .or coughing and wheezing like an asthmatic. . .
 
Michigan had a few places back in the 90s when I lived there { the cheapo places } that had that 10%-15% mix in the gas and to their credit they displayed it at the pump , my ex would think she was being smart and saving a couple of bucks to spend at the mall by not listening to me and filling up there , till I made her pay the 250 bucks to get the carb in my caddie rebuilt and my fuel system flushed for the second time in as many years then it started to sink in to her thick skull -don't burn modern garbage gas in an older car that the fuel was never made to be burned in
 
Man, after all that work. Have you changed the plugs? I used to have a big block 10.1 -1 comp, with an open K&N element breather sticking thru the hood (hill-jack dirt track style, cause thats what you do when you have a jigsaw and no money).

Used to drive in torrential spring rain storms with the four barrels open, hauling a$$ like a mad man for 50+ miles at a time, out on the open roads in the country, would do this repeatedly for a week or so during a rainy season..

Point is, it ate water like a ****, just guzzling it down. Usually a few days after ingesting all that water, the plugs would fail, regardless of how new they were. Irratic sputtering and miss-firing, popping out the tail pipe, practically failing to run.. Change of plugs solved it every time. Autolite coppers got er thru. 99 cent at each, at walmart back then.




Gen2Cudas said:
Thanks Ramcharger. I was seriously thinking of the old style steel filter sleeve with the cartridge inside- kinda like the old diesel kind. . .or one of the old style tractor filter with the glass catcher and bale. Neither would look very pretty. Also running the notion of a sump valve like in the low side of airplane wing tanks. . .a pretty picture as well. Not. The marine engine guys are counseling a 2 micron filter and replace every 25 hours. . .this from Yamaha outboards announcement. . .

I got good Shell this morning in a can to get her started. Appears to be running okay, but a little hesitation and just a hint of miss at just-off-idle throttle. Am retarding the ignition timing a bit and readjusting the mixture- will see. Be a hell of a note if I have to run a stock compression slant 6 on 93 octane Shell just to be able to enjoy it and not have it be an iffy proposition driving it from town to town on the highway.

I am gonna talk to Slant 6 Dan about seals to take alcohol immersion in the carb- I already am using the alcohol tolerant EFI fuel line and the mod to avoid vapor lock. . .

Wish me luck. Sucks to see Mopar Power of whatever level on the side of the road. . .or coughing and wheezing like an asthmatic. . .
Click to expand...
 
ricernuker said:
Man, after all that work. Have you changed the plugs? I used to have a big block 10.1 -1 comp, with an open K&N element breather sticking thru the hood (hill-jack dirt track style, cause thats what you do when you have a jigsaw and no money).

Used to drive in torrential spring rain storms with the four barrels open, hauling a$$ like a mad man for 50+ miles at a time, out on the open roads in the country, would do this repeatedly for a week or so during a rainy season..

Point is, it ate water like a ****, just guzzling it down. Usually a few days after ingesting all that water, the plugs would fail, regardless of how new they were. Irratic sputtering and miss-firing, popping out the tail pipe, practically failing to run.. Change of plugs solved it every time. Autolite coppers got er thru. 99 cent at each, at walmart back then.
Click to expand...

Love it! So far, haven't looked at the plugs- but will, thanks RN.
 
slantsixdan said:
See Ted's fuel/water separator installation here and here.
Click to expand...

Will look at this one too! Put Shell gas in and drove it around town- so far, so good. Will see what happens after she sits for a week! Still thinking ahead at carb rebuilds with alcohol tolerant gaskets and seals. . .I got a Edlebrock 4 barrel to rebuild for "Red" too- and don't want the stutters after I drop that one back in and button her up!

Thanks for all the good insight guys- nothing but the best here at FABO.

Mike
 
Sounds like it ain't the E10 that's the problem, but rather the vendor not maintaining his equipment/tanks. Buy your fuel somewhere else. BTW - I run various combinations of E10-E85 in my B/Cuda & have only had trouble when I let the car sit for 6 months - but then again, I would've had that trouble w/ straight gas, too.
 
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