Ignition upgrade worth it?

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DartVadar

DartVadar

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I've been wondering if it's a good idea to upgrade the ignition on my 73 dart. It'll have a 360 with some good parts in it, solid roller cam, aluminum heads etc. Before I was just running the stock electronic ignition that was in the car, as well as the stock distributor. It was running just fine like that, but my biggest concern is that I don't have any rev limiter in case something gives, don't want to rev to the moon and break something in the motor.

Would it be worth it to upgrade to an MSD 6AL box with a rev limiter? If I'm not mistaken you can get ones with a dial for the limiter instead of the chips. New distributor and coil as well. Are there really any other gains that are seen with installing one?
 
I cannot speak for the MSD. I have just never had the opportunity to use anything by them. I think it's kinda expensive. The Mopar stuff can be fine, but I think you will at least need the MP distributor and a chrome box. Since Mallory started making their distributor, they are pretty nice. They have both adjustable mechanical and vacuum advances.

That said, the MSD stuff must work, because plenty of people use it.

TrailBeast also has his HEI setup available. From what I've read, it's pretty nice.
 
I use the msd streetfire box, cheaper than the 6-series. Used the chrome box before, idle is more stable now, i also wanted the rev limiter and this box has it.

Michael
 
MSD 6AL, .050 plug gap, E core coil. You will notice a difference. CL buy for around 75-$100 for a good box.
 
Most ignition upgrades are a panacea. There are times when it is necessary. Super high compression, super high RPM, boost, big spray...but in practical use in typical performance engines, you'll see zero real world difference. This I know from back-to-back testing.
About 20 years ago, Car Craft did an ignition shootout between three different systems. Typical HiPo SB Chevy on a dyno. They compared a stock single point, a stock GM HEI and a (don't remember the exact) aftermarket system . Guess which one made the most HP at the highest RPM. Don't take my word for it, Google is your friend.
 
I wasn't really expecting to gain much power, that's not really why I want to change the ignition. I really just want a rev limiter.

And I also think a new distributor may be needed, I am running the stock original one. Because I don't know if it has enough timing in it (not my strong point, so I could be wrong about this) because I was running about 15 initial and 33 total, so with the new cam and what not it will probably want a bit more.
 
DartVadar said:
I wasn't really expecting to gain much power, that's not really why I want to change the ignition. I really just want a rev limiter.

And I also think a new distributor may be needed, I am running the stock original one. Because I don't know if it has enough timing in it (not my strong point, so I could be wrong about this) because I was running about 15 initial and 33 total, so with the new cam and what not it will probably want a bit more.
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Do a google search on recurving Mopar distributors. It's easier than you think. As for a rev limiter, are you running a stick, where you're worried about missing a gear? If not, 99% of the time, your valvetrain is a built in rev limiter. Those hydraulic lifters with all that preload start to pump up and overpower the springs right around six grand.
 
DartVadar said:
I wasn't really expecting to gain much power, that's not really why I want to change the ignition. I really just want a rev limiter.

And I also think a new distributor may be needed, I am running the stock original one. Because I don't know if it has enough timing in it (not my strong point, so I could be wrong about this) because I was running about 15 initial and 33 total, so with the new cam and what not it will probably want a bit more.
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That all sounds good to me. The stock box should only go to 6K. I doubt you would hurt anything at that rpm.
 
I think the things I've noticed with a nice ign, are quicker starts and better idle, I've used mopar and MSD, I don't know about now, but back then I had troubles with the Orange box...
 
whitepunkonnitro said:
Do a google search on recurving Mopar distributors. It's easier than you think. As for a rev limiter, are you running a stick, where you're worried about missing a gear? If not, 99% of the time, your valvetrain is a built in rev limiter. Those hydraulic lifters with all that preload start to pump up and overpower the springs right around six grand.
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Didnt realize the distributor was easy to re-curve, I'll have to consider that then. And it's an auto, but with a good size solid roller cam, I've got enough spring to hit over 7 grand, so I'm kinda just worried about a freak occurrnces that allows the RPMs to get up there.
 
66fs said:
That all sounds good to me. The stock box should only go to 6K. I doubt you would hurt anything at that rpm.
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So at 6k the box just kinda stops working? Because 6 grand wouldnt be too bad of a limit.
 
I'd have no issue with removing every piece of a mopar system and replacing it with something else like an MSD on a solid roller engine. MSD distributors are so simple to recurve. If you need a bushing that has less than the 18* mechanical advance supplied by msd, I have 10 and 14* pieces available. Old style Mopar distributors compared to msd stuff are brain surgery to putting on a band aid. The newer MP are easier for mechanical advance limit adjustments, still require a total disassembly to change springs IIRC.


Orange boxes are good at dropping timing in the upper rpm bands.
 
I bought a revnator box months back and it's great has got a rev limiter and my engine runs better at high rpms. Dustin
 
That test for HP IIRC went, Aftermarket, stock HEI then points.

Mopar has nothing like the hei set up, that's for sure. The GM hei is a darn good piece in stock form.
 
DartVadar said:
I've been wondering if it's a good idea to upgrade the ignition on my 73 dart. It'll have a 360 with some good parts in it, solid roller cam, aluminum heads etc. Before I was just running the stock electronic ignition that was in the car, as well as the stock distributor. It was running just fine like that, but my biggest concern is that I don't have any rev limiter.

Would it be worth it to upgrade to an MSD 6AL box with a rev limiter? If I'm not mistaken you can get ones with a dial for the limiter instead of the chips. New distributor and coil as well. Are there really any other gains that are seen with installing one?
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Even if it were a stock or warmed over build the answer would be a resounding yes.

With exception to one time, ALL of the ignition issues I've ever dealt with on my cars or other people's have been due to mopar ignition parts. Distributers, ECU boxes and the dumbest of them all the ballast resistor.

Your car should have a rev limiter. Yes, an MSD digital 6 box, which is my box of choice has the dials you referred to.

The car will run better at all RPM's, it will make more power, it will run cleaner and crisper at an idle. This is not just due to a hotter spark but due to the multiple spark discharge function of the ignition.

You'll also have an optional 20 degree start retard which depending on your starter, battery, compression and base timing can be helpful.

You'll also get to discard that POS ballast resistor.

On to the distributer. YES get the billet MSD or an HEI. The mopar dizzys are riddled with issues and poor production features and quality. They are a PITA to change the curve in. MSD's are very easy and come with the parts to change it.


RustyRatRod said:
I cannot speak for the MSD. I think it's kinda expensive. The Mopar stuff can be fine, but I think you will at least need the MP distributor and a chrome box. That said, the MSD stuff must work, because plenty of people use it.

TrailBeast also has his HEI setup available. From what I've read, it's pretty nice.
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472$ mopar vs. 488$ MSD. That is for the full package in either brand.



whitepunkonnitro said:
Most ignition upgrades are a panacea. There are times when it is necessary. Super high compression, super high RPM, boost, big spray...but in practical use in typical performance engines, you'll see zero real world difference. This I know from back-to-back testing.
About 20 years ago, Car Craft did an ignition shootout between three different systems. Typical HiPo SB Chevy on a dyno. They compared a stock single point, a stock GM HEI and a (don't remember the exact) aftermarket system . Guess which one made the most HP at the highest RPM. Don't take my word for it, Google is your friend.
Click to expand...


Then why does the factory use a HEI with rev limits in everything from economy beaters to exotic sports cars as well as the motorcycle industry?

20 years ago and testing done by someone else? Testing that only showed high RPM power, which has nothing to do with why he wants to or would want to change.

First is you take a properly tuned engine on points and put in a MSD they usually go lean, hence less power as seen in the test. But on to the benefits..

Reliability and under the curve, idle-cruise speed performance is greatly improved with a modern MSD or HEI ignition. I've seen this with my own eyes but on my own cars and with other peoples I've worked on.

It's time to get with today's technology. You didn't build the engine with 1973's technology or parts so why would you control it with archaic devices?


DartVadar said:
I wasn't really expecting to gain much power, that's not really why I want to change the ignition. I really just want a rev limiter.

And I also think a new distributor may be needed, I am running the stock original one. Because I don't know if it has enough timing in it (not my strong point, so I could be wrong about this) because I was running about 15 initial and 33 total, so with the new cam and what not it will probably want a bit more.
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If you want the cheap way out bump your timing to 18/36 and buy an external limiter from MSD. The 2 step is 92$ and uses dials, actually cheaper than a single top end limiter with pills.
 
I found a brand new ignition box as well as a blaster coil on kijiji for pretty cheap, brand new stuff that the guy never used, would just need a distributor. I'll call the guy to make sure it's what he posted. From the ad it's an MSD 6AL digital box. That would be correct I assume?
 
If you just want a rev limiter, you could wire up a HEI unit and use the the Petronix unit that has an adjustable rev limiter.
The bracket to bolt it to the bottom of the Mopar distributor is $25 and the Hei is $70.
Connect a couple of wires and add a coil with no external resistance required for $32.
 
sireland67 said:
If you just want a rev limiter, you could wire up a HEI unit and use the the Petronix unit that has an adjustable rev limiter.
The bracket to bolt it to the bottom of the Mopar distributor is $25 and the Hei is $70.
Connect a couple of wires and add a coil with no external resistance required for $32.
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Well a rev limiter is one reason, but an entire ignition upgrade is what I was wondering about, and from what I'm reading that is a good idea.
 
Check the internet for the bogus MSD box serial numbers and make sure it's not one of them.
 
DartVadar said:
Thats a good idea! I'll make sure I do that, never thought it was a thing to fake them.
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oh yeah..it was a big issue on ebay. The other problem is if the serial number isn't legit MSD won't warranty the part.
 
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