impact of modern muscle cars on the old car market

[barbee6043]

I have seen prices of our old Mopars rise and fall a few times since the first crash of '91-2. I see plenty of what I regard as over priced, pie in the sky prices, restored cars down to junk rollers. I see few cars actually selling and fewer for those high restored prices. I see more B bodies sell than or A bodies, and looks for what little I look at E body $, they are not selling much either. That is OK with me, I don't need to sell anything, but always on the lookout for a good project priced for what I think it is worth. I look and I find.
I have to wonder just how much the "modern" muscle car has taken away from people buying our "old" mopar high performance models, or even the more pedestrian models??? I have some friends that for decades bought, did the resto thing, and one day said, enough and bought late model Challengers. Just wondering other people's view of it all.

 

[diymirage]

i think the "modern muscle" has just as much impact on the price of classic mopars as a cummins diesel does, and for the same reason

 

[Hellrats]

I just sold my restored 1969 Charger 2 months age. Numbers matching 440. Nice car but not over restored, just nice. B5 blue white strip and top. $82,500. It was a pain in the A$$ finding GOOD parts and was not cheap. But I did make some money on it. It's the love of the cool old cars but it is getting to the point that it's not easy to find a good one and the new ones are much friendlier to drive.

 

[Hellrats]

E body = $$$$
B body = $$$
A body = $
Just the way it goes

 

[General Disarray]

It's a complicated contemplation, isn't it? Folks at some stage in life with a good deal of money have certainly impacted the market, for better or worse, paying high prices for "old" Mopars at auctions and such. I believe that prompted many to begin restoring these cars with the belief that there were folks out there flush with cash ready to pay high prices for old muscle and classic cars (not a dig at anyone). At some point, though, trends change, for whatever reason. Prices go up, prices go down, prices may stabilize. Definately dependent on the economy, and maybe "what are the Jones' doing."

I take what I see on the car reality TV shows with a packet of salt. It's entertainment with some useful knowledge thrown in. One episode of GYC, Worman priced out a car when it was new, with the options listed on the fender tag. Without taxes and destination charges, etc., the car was about $4,400. Using whatever inflation calculator he had, he figured that was around $29,000 today, and said, "Would you buy this car today for those $$$ ?" Most off-the-cuff answers would be "YES" because we know you can't build/restore the car for that. But if you really think about it, is it a "good" buy today?

A new 2018 Challenger R/T, 5.7 Hemi, starts at $34,000. Let's say you had a 1970 Challenger, 383, optioned out all the way, GYC restored, perfect, for $29,000. Which is the "better" buy? Which gives you more bang-for-the-buck? Performance-wise, the 2018 would run circles around it's predecessor. Not to mention the fuel economy. However, how many 2018 Challengers will be running the roads in 2058, 2068? (If gasoline is still available).

I do believe the modern muscle car has had some impact on the old muscle car market. The new cars just do so many things well. I believe the most impact, though, has come from fluctuating market values combined with the costs incurred to acquire, repair/restore, and maintain them. Declining popularity means fewer manufacturers want to make parts. Really high prices and parts availability impact popularity. Somehow need to keep them popular.

Just my rambling thoughts. I, too, would like to read others opinions.

 

[Murray]

Am involved with a Mopar club here in the Bay area, Ca. We have been having this discussion for several years. How to keep the hobby alive and encourage younger ones to get involved. Many suggestions have been proposed but a clear answer has eluded us. Young people out here do not care for old cars, they are drawn to modern, high performance cars. This becomes really obvious when attending a car show at a High School that still has an auto shop. The boys walk right by your car and right to the "new" Mustang, Camaro or Challenger. One thing we are doing is to have several classes for the newer cars at our car show. You might be surprised at the large turnout in these classes. They may represent 20% of the field. Like us, they may have a lot money and time invested customizing their cars. Glad to hear you boy's opinions.

 

[barbee6043]

I just sold my restored 1969 Charger 2 months age. Numbers matching 440. Nice car but not over restored, just nice. B5 blue white strip and top. $82,500. It was a pain in the A$$ finding GOOD parts and was not cheap. But I did make some money on it. It's the love of the cool old cars but it is getting to the point that it's not easy to find a good one and the new ones are much friendlier to drive.

I do appreciate your sharing price you got the price you got for your Charger. Real sales are what tells us what is going on within the hobby. I value private sales info, not so much the prices paid at drunken auctions. The # matching engine puts it in another class of collectability for sure, but that was a really nice price IMHO.
Like you said, it is really hard to find a good project, plenty of stuff out there that are not worth the time and $ unless a person is totally bored.

 

[toplscuda]

I do think they have an impact on our older cars but as stated above, as we age and drop off there are not as many interested in them. People are drawn to what was hot and affordable when they were teens. My dad was a 50's car guy because that was what was hot when he was a teen. I am drawn more toward the 60-70s car for the same reason. At one time model T's were bringing in high dollar, not so much anymore.

 

[General Disarray]

Like you said, it is really hard to find a good project, plenty of stuff out there that are not worth the time and $ unless a person is totally bored.

...or flush with $$$.

 

[Hellrats]

I do think they have an inpact on our older cars but as stated above as we age and drop off there are not as many interested in them. People are drawn to what was hot and affordable when they were teens. My dod was a 50's car guy because that was what was hot when he was a teen. I am drawn more toward the 60-70s car for the same reason. At one time model T's were bringing in high dollar, not so much anymore.

Man you nail it! My son could care less about cars. He thinks old cars are stupid.

 

[stroked340]

No impact on me what so ever I wouldn't own ANY muscle car made after '72..

 

[James Camp]

I like both the old and new, if i was going to drive a lot, would have to go to the new challenger or demon. i was actually looking to buy a 2016 challenger, and run into a 2015 charger with a 392, 4 wheel drive, super bee package, if it had been a 2 door versus 4 door ,that would be what i would be driving now, and now with the new demon dodge put out , i am more tempted to buy new, but after passing on the new , i started a build on 1974 duster, taught my wife of 42 years to drive on a 70 duster 340, 4 speed, so the decision to build what i wanted came back to memories,but if i was going to drive from east coast to the west coast, i wouldnt dare start in a old mopar, number 1, you couldn't find parts if you broke down ,and if by luck you did, the parts people would see an out of state tag and take you to the cleaners,oh by the way the reason the 4 wheel drive charger caught my attention ,is the fact i live at a 3000 ft elevation, it would have been an advantage in the snows we get, so i can see why a young person is drawn to the new cars, convenience, and the ability to get it repaired, and park a 1972 challenger next to a 2018 challenger, and the kids will pick the newer one 90% of the time, if not because of the shine, but the interior has a lot more comfort and features. And a 18 year old is not gonna spend $20 to 30 thousand on a car and park it for the week and drive it only on the weekend, and leave it set all winter to keep it out of the salt and bad weather

 

[cdnEHbody]

4 doors have been popping up more and more here lately. Almost impossible for average joe to afford anything 2 door. And when i can its rusted ******* garbage.

What i can afford as a two door in good shape would be diplomats from the 80s, mid 70s 300 and charger etc.

Or colonade body olds, malibus, etc

Actually...i passed on a nice ex police diplomat 360. Shoulda grabbed it.

 

[340wedge]

Go to any cruise night and car show, more and more New cars are showing up. If it rains they don't care. They can leave in 90 degree heat and have the AC on. Yes they are making huge dents as people 45-65 are more and more going new iron. Warrantee, drives better, brakes better, parts available and dealers will work on them. The old iron still brings some money but people who thought they had gold are finding less and less buyers. Sure high dollar Hemi's and Cobra Jets and things will always bring big coin, but the average Muscle Car, you sell reasonable or it spends another ten years under the tarp and you can fool yourself that you have a real investment under there. Times are changing quickly and there are old diehards like me who love the old stuff over new, but we are becoming less and less.

 

[Frnknsteen]

I agree that the younger crowd doesn't seem to be as interested in the old cars. I'm a little different I guess. I had a 2010 Plum Crazy Challenger, and sold it because I was tired of trying to fix it , or take it when something went wrong. I sold it and bought my Barracuda because I could work on it.

 

[Paladin06]

I think the modern muscle cars have helped the value of the old muscle cars. They are both great cars in their own right. I hate when people try to compare the two generations. I own a 2008 SRT8 Challenger (#904) never had any problems in 10 years now with 35K on the meter, a 2015 Challenger Hellcat (#834) and a 1972 340 Duster numbers matching 4 speed and I love them all. Great cars and a blast to drive. Now if I can just find the right 1969 Dodge Charger I'll add it to the Man Cave.

 

[Buford19]

When buying a new muscle car you lose about 20 % of it value, the day you drive it off the lot. Normally these new cars continue to drop in price over the next 20years. On the other hand a desirable 1970 muscle car selling for 40000.00 will probably go up in valve, or stay around the same price, over the next 20years. There also a satisfaction of driving a car that not many other people are driving in your town or city. No matter what old car drive by me, I always take a second look. Can’t say that for the 20or so new mustangs, or camaro I see everyday.

 

[Dartswinger70]

I was just saying to a friend "old cars are cool, but then you drive them, and my Dart don't have A/C, and it drinks gas etc. then you are like, I wanna drive my newer car now..." sad reality. Yes I love these cars and grew up driving them, but when you can afford a new car, you are going to gravitate to it naturally.

 

[General Disarray]

I agree that the younger crowd doesn't seem to be as interested in the old cars. I'm a little different I guess. I had a 2010 Plum Crazy Challenger, and sold it because I was tired of trying to fix it , or take it when something went wrong. I sold it and bought my Barracuda because I could work on it.

Frnknsteen, is that an indictment on the poor quality of the 2010 Challenger?

 

[General Disarray]

When buying a new muscle car you lose about 20 % of it value, the day you drive it off the lot. Normally these new cars continue to drop in price over the next 20years. On the other hand a desirable 1970 muscle car selling for 40000.00 will probably go up in valve, or stay around the same price, over the next 20years. There also a satisfaction of driving a car that not many other people are driving in your town or city. No matter what old car drive by me, I always take a second look. Can’t say that for the 20or so new mustangs, or camaro I see everyday.

I understand your logic. However, I had a 1971 'Cuda back in '74, 383 car, nothing special. Paid $1,795 for it. Car sold new in the fall of 1970 for around $3,400. 50% depreciation in less than 5 years. Now if I had kept that car, waited 47 years, that car might be worth $40k, $50k ? Is it not possible that in 30 - 40 years a modern muscle car maybe worth more than it sold for new? Who the hell would have predicted in 1974 that these Mopars could, would, climb to such desireability and value? Be almost like having the sports almanac from Back To The Future.

 

[diymirage]

I understand your logic. However, I had a 1971 'Cuda back in '74, 383 car, nothing special. Paid $1,795 for it. Car sold new in the fall of 1970 for around $3,400. 50% depreciation in less than 5 years. Now if I had kept that car, waited 47 years, that car might be worth $40k, $50k ? Is it not possible that in 30 - 40 years a modern muscle car maybe worth more than it sold for new? Who the hell would have predicted in 1974 that these Mopars could, would, climb to such desireability and value? Be almost like having the sports almanac from Back To The Future.

nah, they would be dead weight, you wont be able to get gasoline in 30-40 years

 

[Princess Valiant]

newer cars like the demon are raising awareness of cars of the past.

years ago everyone was calling my demon as a duster "its the same car right"

Now that the new demon is around and more people are realizing there was also one made in the past everyone seems to want one. I have had quite a few people stop and ring the bell and ask if the old demon is for sale.

 

[General Disarray]

nah, they would be dead weight, you wont be able to get gasoline in 30-40 years

I can see it now - just like Mad Max 2 thru 27 - no gasoline, and a gang of Mopar zombies are scavanging junkyards for Prius batteries, stealing solar panels from homes, and electric motors from Grainger - all to make a 80 year old Dart GTS driveable once more.

 

['73red-duster]

Went to a cruis in Saturday night. Not a lot of cars there, but some pretty nice ones. Next to a McDonald’s, so I parked and went to get a bite. When I got back there were 8-9 people standing around mine. It’s not real special, but it is different. Paint needs freshened up, and I didn’t really even clean it up, but it does get attention.

 

[SLOPAR72]

Modern musclecars can out perform old muscle toe to toe and pound for pound.... The cool factor of the old iron is just a matter of opinion. What flicks your lighter may not someone else.

The change is creeping up on the guys who own older cars. There will always be some demand at some level but it's going to tail off. That's in the USA anyway. I can't speak for other countries so the story may be different.

If someone can walk out to the lot and put down the cake for newer technology, of course it's changing the market. It's not going to be today but there will come a time. Until then, just enjoy what you have and let all that other stuff play out. That's how I see it anyway.

JW