Instability Question

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old guys like that usually know their stuff. the thing is if he is using specs from the 70's thats a lot of your problem. maybe there are other issues that he will find when he looks at it.
 
abodyjoe said:
old guys like that usually know their stuff. the thing is if he is using specs from the 70's thats a lot of your problem. maybe there are other issues that he will find when he looks at it.
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I am betting that you are right Joe. I think Ron will fix me up. It doesn't hurt me to gain some knowledge from my forum friends before I take it back. What are forum friends for!?
 
Dust1 said:
Ok forum friends, now I think we are getting somewhere on this problem I am having with Mean Green. I researched "Bump Steer" like Green1 suggested. While I was looking the Duster over yesterday, checking all the components for looseness, I didn't find any looseness. I did notice that when jacking the car under the K member in the center the left front wheel developes a severe toe in which would cause the condition I am experiencing. Bump Steer.
I just changed over to BBP last fall, {73-76} parts on this 71. The lower balljoint arm is configured a little differently than the one I took off. Is it possible this difference has changed the dynamics at the outer tie rod enough to cause the toe-in to cause the Bump-Steer condition. I never had this problem to this extreme until I changed over to BBP. The definition of Bump Steer as described in my research pretty much nails it.
If this is the problem, how do I correct it? Thanks friends, with your help I'll get this solved yet and it'll be safe to drive soon!
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Just what I was going to say... I have experienced this on my own after switching to the bbp. It changes the track too if you had the small drums. The only way to adjust the bump steer is to adjust the heights of the tie-rod mounting points. I am planning on using something like these:

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Adjustable-Tie-Rod-Adapter-Stud-to-Heim,3333.html
 
bjkadron said:
What breaks do you have? If you changed to disc brakes or something you could have changed the track which would have a big change to the bumpsteer geometry.
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Yes, as I said in an earlier post. I went from a 71 disc brake setup to a 73-76 BBP disc brake setup. swapped the spindles side to side to mount the brakes in the rear to clear the sway bar and such. Something definately changed the dynamics for sure. Can't change it back now, just need to know how to fix the problem.
The answer may lie in some of these kits I have been reading about, tie rod end kits to level the tie rod.
 
If you used all parts from the 73-76 (upper control arms, spindles, lower ball joints and outer tie rod ends) that will not be your problem, those parts would all be correct and work fine. literally 100's if not 1000's have done this swap including myself and had no issues.

I'll bet he has the caster off or forgot to tighten a cam bolt.
 
Dust1 said:
Yes, as I said in an earlier post. I went from a 71 disc brake setup to a 73-76 BBP disc brake setup. swapped the spindles side to side to mount the brakes in the rear to clear the sway bar and such. Something definately changed the dynamics for sure. Can't change it back now, just need to know how to fix the problem.
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I just saw that...
See edited post above.
 
mopar340dave said:
Dude, here's the modern day specs....again!
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Ok Dave. I read your earlier post the 1st time and copied it, all 5 pages! I plan on discusing these specs with my alignment guy. I also look at all other possibilities to be on the smart side. I examine all the possibilities and elliminate them one at a time until the car handles. Thanks again for your input!
 
BBP=big bolt pattern

5x4.5 vs 5x4

No prob. I just wanted to make sure you saw that. That is the real today specs for virtually any mopar with our torsion bar suspension.

I use those numbers exclusively and I am there watching when it's aligned.
Your car will handle is as good as it can with the parts you got....but mos def make sure that nothins bumpin anything, as has already been pointed out.
 
Instability problem solved! Thanks Dave, the Skosh Chart you recommended was viewed and helped Ron dial it in for me. Mean Green has never driven and handled better!

Here are the specs Ron used.

Left Front Right Front

-0.37* Camber -0.57*
+2.21* Caster +2.35*
0.05* Toe 0.03*

Cross Camber 0.20*
Cross Caster -0.15*
Total Toe 0.07*

Thanks again friends at Fabo! I think my Alignment Guru learned something today too.:cheers::cheers:
 
Good to hear.. and better yet, that your guy is open to learning..

To all those that offered up the info.. thx

Grant
 
Dust1 said:
Instability problem solved! Thanks Dave, the Skosh Chart you recommended was viewed and helped Ron dial it in for me. Mean Green has never driven and handled better!

Here are the specs Ron used.

Left Front Right Front

-0.37* Camber -0.57*
+2.21* Caster +2.35*
0.05* Toe 0.03*

Cross Camber 0.20*
Cross Caster -0.15*
Total Toe 0.07*

Thanks again friends at Fabo! I think my Alignment Guru learned something today too.:cheers::cheers:
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so what did he have aligned to before? the stock specs?
 
Yes Joe,
I asked Ron if he used stock specs. He said yes. He sat down and read the Mopar Action publication and we talked about it some. He said he was open to new ideas and went to work. He also found and fixed a problem with the Pitman and Idler arms that largely was responsible for the majority of bump steer. Nothing was wrong with them, they just needed some tweaking. That is all I know about that. He described one being higher than the other causing an unusual angle on the center link.
 
That's cool that he was able to hook you up. Odd issue with the idler/pitman arms...

I was a little curious about the spindle's bein swapped, but maybe that has no effect...as in..they are centered on the pivot point.
 
oldkimmer said:
..............Also the K frame wears badly where the lower control bolts thru.......post ur specs, so we can help u out b4 u take it back again and again, u say u want help , so let us help u....lots of times ppl ask questions then dont listen anyways, dont b1 of them......kim........
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Kim's right, here is a pic of mine. Just 1/16 of a inch movement here at the pivot changes things immensely at the wheel!

100_2886.jpg
 
mopar340dave said:
Wow! That sucks...are you gonna weld some plate on to beef it up or what?
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Yep, already welded it back in place, I wedged it back in place with a crowbar and built a large bead around the upper half. It seems they only welded the bushing from the 5 oclock position to about 7:30 position. I'm really beginning to hate front end work!!!!!!
 
These numbers are great to know. I just put BBP on my 71 Swinger, eye balled it, drove great to the shop. When I picked it up drove like crap. When I finish my winter project of motor swap I will take the numbers back to the shop and get it fixed. This is truley a great place for any info. thanks to all.
 
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