Is It Possible To Get What I Want?

-
4

4speeds4me

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
163
Reaction score
7
Location
Sorrento
I have a 2013 5.7VVT without MDS. I am retrofitting into my car, but when it comes to running it all, I seem to keep hitting a snag. Modern Muscle says if I want to utilize their system, I need to go drive-by-wire, which I do not want. Holley's HP setup looks good enough, but currently will not run the VVT side of things, which I wish to retain. Megasquirt lacks the "plug'n'play" simplicity I can get with the others. Is there any way to get what I want???
 
Whats your hold back on drive by wire, in my head the VVT is well worth DBW. I run the FAST xfi stuff in my car now and liked the idea of DBC Among other things, but in hindsight my next one will be DBW with a factory ECU
 
Couple of questions:
1. What particular issue do you have with drive by wire?

2. How much plug and play are you looking for?

For question #1 If you reasoning is safety I think you're misguided. With the exception of the Toyota fiasco with their DBW setup. Manufacturers have had an excellent safety record with DBW. Incidentally, one of Toyota's issues (they actually had several) was their lack of a key safety feature. With virtually all other DBW systems when the computer sensed application of the brake and throttle at the same time, the computer would close the throttle. Makes power braking a bit tough, but a good safety idea.

If you're concerned that you won't be able to use the stock pedal that is unfounded. You can use your stock pedal. The 2003 Hemi used a standard pedal and the cable ran to a small box under the hood, inside the box was a potentiometer that would send your throttle input to the computer.

In reality if you're simply want a cable operated throttle, because you want what you want, that is cool too, after all it's your car.

For question #2

For true plug and play the only real setup is the one that uses the factory computer. All of the other setups will start you off with a "base tune." The quality of this base tune varies, unlike bolting a Holley Carb on your LA motor and expecting it to run pretty good, the base tune might simply get the motor running.

Now many modern EFI setups that rely on a wide-band O2 sensor will offer auto-tune. Where you simply drive the car around and the computer essentially programs itself. This is available for the Holley, Megasquirt, and FAST systems. Reviews have generally been positive.

Whether YOU will be able to integrate these modern systems EFI systems with the Hemi VVT is uncertain. Though the latest version of MS3 DOES support VVT.

As you can see although features like Autotune and companies like EFI source make aftermarket EFI MUCH easier. I would argue that it is not plug and play.
 
I have been following the 09+ vvt 5.7 eagle since I picked up mine in march of 2010. If you want to keep vvt, you have but one choice currently. That is to use a factory ECM. Modern muscle or Hotwire can take care of you there. I like the modern muscle route because it comes with what you need and tuning. Bad thing is that if you want to change anything you have to get a diablo intune or trinity handheld tuner. Another 400-600 bones.

There are other systems available but at this time they all require locking out the cam phaser thus eliminating the benefits of vvt.

I didn't like the idea of an electronic pedal at first either. But I soon realized its not a big deal. It's actually easier to adapt than a cable operated set up.
 
Joe- Thanks for the indepth response. I have a 2012 Ram 1500 with a 5.7 in it, and even before I knew it was DBW, I was complaining about it's response to my right foot...or lack thereof. I've done Megasquirt conversions to LA engines, Pro-jection, etc, and have been less than enthused by the response of the factory setup in my RAM. I can get a TB that's been converted, but as long as the ECM is setup for DBW, we'll still have issues, correct? I'm definitely being difficult with this one, but there's just certain things I'd really like, and other things I don't want to give up!
 
4speeds4me, have you driven any other new mopars. I have 14 Charger 5.7 hemi and throttle response is great. Maybe you are extra sensitive or your Ram is off tune. IMO maybe you should do some test drives to compare.
 
I have...I will say the new Challenger with the 6-speed was better, and I can't rule out that transmission "lag" might also factor in...I just know that if the 68 reacts the way my 2012 does, I am NOT going to be happy...
 
OH! And Cevidcus- I'm not adverse to the Diablo either, as I can use it on my truck to eliminate a couple other issues...like shutting me down at 105...lol
 
I don't know about mopars specifically, but I know in the import world it is possible to swap a TPS sensor, or get a adapter/tuner to get a more responsive throttle with DBW, (turbo forester vs STI) I would assume that mopar is the same... The car stuff may be better than truck... Or maybe you can tweak the sensitivity, may be worth a search...

Joe
 
My '05 Ram w/Hemi has DBW and no MDS. Throttle responds just fine. I've got some Charger Hemis at work with MDS and they lag. However, the lag is not the DBW, it's that ever so slight (and sometimes more obvious) hesitation that it takes to kick out of MDS and back into 8 cyls. that I feel. If you're not in a big rush, it's no big deal, but when you're trying to maneuver quickly in a traffic situation, it's annoying and a pain in the ***. I think if your engine does not have MDS, you won't have a problem with the DBW. If it does have MDS, you can turn it off with whatever Diablo device you get.

BTW, I have a late model Challenger too and because of some factory transmission programming I dislike, I always drive it in manual mode, which also shuts off the MDS. Again, with the MDS off, the DBW is no problem whatsoever.

Lastly, when I was first "engineering / designing" my Cuda build, I went with a MP cable throttle body because I didn't want DBW. I didn't have any DBW vehicles at the time and didn't like the idea of it. Since then, I have THREE DBW vehicles and if I were designing my build right now, I wouldn't hesitate to go DBW...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top