Is this worth it? 1974 440

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1968 Valiant

1968 Valiant

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Since my 383 needs a lot of work I have a lead on a 1974 440 out of a running motorhome.

From what I can tell this is a fairly detuned motor. and has less torque and horse powere than my 1968 2BBL 383

Are these newer 440 motors Junk???

Or would this motor do ok with my 906 heads on it??

Any advice would be great
 
The two motors used different ratings for the HP numbers that is why the 440 looks like it has less HP than the 383. Stock they are probably really close to same peak HP.


Chuck
 
Junk?!

Not at all. If you look at the 440 source website, they even prefer some of the later blocks because they have extra webbing, which adds strength. See here...http://www.440source.com/blockinfo.htm

The motor home part of the equation might be an issue though, depending on which heads it has. Some had motor-home specific heads, which you won't be able to use. Others just have regular car heads, so you'll want to check the casting #'s. If you've already got a set of 906's I think you'll be fine, but I'm not a big block expert so you may want to make sure the head change is all you'll need to do.
 
So if I were to put my 906's on this motor in its stock conditions it would runs decent in my Valiant??

Or would I still need to change out pistons or cam to get any amount of compression or power out of it.?
 
jamesdart said:
really depends what you are trying to do
Click to expand...

Yes, and how much do you want to spend. I'd plan on at least a new set of pistons to bring the comp. up to somewhere between 9.5 and 10 and a good cam to match the pistons and 906's. Also a new water pump as some of the motor home engines had some bizzarre pump setups.
 
This is the motor. Its acually a 1978. It runs perfect (confirmed). I poped off the valve cover and checked the head number. they are 452's

I am interested in getting this motor. As I have said before I want to get my car together and running before I start on any performance upgrades. And when I do that it will probobly be upgrading the heads and a cam at most. This is going in my valiant that I want to be very streetable.

2 Questions;

1. Is this motor going to fit with the Schumaker stuff and a proper oil pan even though it came out of an RV??

2. Am I wasting my time with it...?

440 1.jpg


440 2.jpg


440 3.jpg


440 4.jpg
 
I am working on a similar build. The block is stronger in general. The 452 heads are fine. The engine will work fine JUST AS IT IS, although the power won't rip your head off your neck. If you start with it, then plan your buildup for a future date, you could put it in right away. The Schumacher mounts will work great. The oil pan will need to be changed. You are not wasting your time.

Check out my blog to see my '78 440 motorhome block project:

http://1971plymouthscamp440.blogspot.com/
 
1968 Valiant said:
So if I were to put my 906's on this motor in its stock conditions it would runs decent in my Valiant??

Or would I still need to change out pistons or cam to get any amount of compression or power out of it.?
Click to expand...
Change out the pistons that is the junk part of a 74 440, the best thing about that motor is that seven blade fan....keep it and install a new heavy duty thermal clutch and it will cool it great..
 
71 Scamp - Thankyou for your straight answere. I am not to far from you. We should meet up this summer.


I bought the 78 440. I am going to clean it up and paint it this weekend. Throw on a new (not motorhome) water pump and a few new seals and gaskets since I have it out.

I am all for more power in the long run but as I sit currently my goal is to get the car converted and driving properly. (torsion/sway bars and brakes) Once I have accomplished that I will start collecting some more performance pieces. Cam / Intake carb possibly new pistons.

I want the grunt of a big block but I am very much a "cruiser" in the sence that I acually like the smooth quiet feel of a stock big block. This car is not my daily driver but I do drive my projects year round.

Question;

I have a stock oil pan off my 68 383 out of a C-body. Will this bolt up to the 440 and work in my Valiant with no steering problems?

Thanks again Everyone for the help
 
I think you need the 187 pan there was one forsale on here not long ago. I'm sure there are other ways to do it, but this one I know forsure.
 
You should use the water pump housing from the 383, that housing on the 440 is a truck only piece and you'll end up with a pretty weird lower hose, if it'll even clear your K member. Also lose the MH exhaust manifolds.
Other than that, you might be perfectly happy with the motor as is though an RV style cam would be a nice upgrade and easy to install while the motor is out.
While the late 440s are way down in power compared to the earlier Magnums, for your intended use and in a light car, it should be fine.
 
1968 Valiant said:
This is the motor. Its acually a 1978. It runs perfect (confirmed). I poped off the valve cover and checked the head number. they are 452's

I am interested in getting this motor. As I have said before I want to get my car together and running before I start on any performance upgrades. And when I do that it will probobly be upgrading the heads and a cam at most. This is going in my valiant that I want to be very streetable.

2 Questions;

1. Is this motor going to fit with the Schumaker stuff and a proper oil pan even though it came out of an RV??

2. Am I wasting my time with it...?
Click to expand...
Yes to number one and no to number two...look in the Members Restoration furum and look at My Recent 440 Build for a 1968 Dodge Dart by bremereric
 
What motor was in the Valiant? If it was a small block, keep the motorhome water pump housing since it dumps out on the same side as a SB radiator. If there's nothing wrong with the water pump don't change it either as it is a special high flow pump that's not available any more. Motorhome motors often used moly rings so if you do decide to do an overhaul you can probably order std. bore pistons and get away with just rehoning (if it even needs it). The 452 heads have induction hardened seats for regular unleaded and flow just as well as 906's for what you are doing. Steel shim head gaskets will help a little with CR if you once again decide to overhaul. About the biggest performance upgrade for the buck you can do on the cheap is put in a new cam and lifters as the stock cam lift will be around .363" lift. With stock pistons I'd stick with Lunati Voodo 60300 or similar size cam from other venders that way you won't need to change springs or anything.
 
I was counting on pirating the 383 for anything that was weird on the 440.
Can I use the stock car manifolds off my 383 in an a-body or do I have to use headers to get them to fit in the engine compartment.

Also if I were to try and install a cam now. What would be a good one for waking up this motor a bit (with the current 452 heads) that would be good for average street use. And does anyone have one they would like to sell me.
 
throw it in and run it. its the only way you will find out other than dissasembling and inspecting everything. you can do a cam swap, but that kind of opens up a can of worms. i wouldnt consider a cam swap with stock springs, you might as well lap the valves while you have it apart. one thing leads to another. i would put a summit cam and timing chain in with some shim head gaskets, new springs, and a cheap used torker or performer intake.
 
That "can of worms" is why I was heading towards just cleaning it up and throwing it in.
I think I would be better collecting all my desired performance pieces together and installing them all properly at one time.


bremereric - I acually followed your build starting 3 weeks ago. I was a bit frustrated because I came upon it and thought it was missing the end only to realize I had caught up to current time. I have followed it since and have gotten a lot of inspiration from your determination and quality.

On the heavy fan clutch - Is that something I can get at an Auto parts store?? Where would I find that. Also What is the best radiator to run with a motor this big. That is the only piece I dont have solved yet.
 
Here is my Engine Currently - original Slant six runs perfect with full Compresion. I'm gonna miss her (and her mileage)

Yes that is a duel Exhaust Header and yes it does sound like a V8 as long as you just let it idle and dont rev it. LOL

Slant 6.jpg
 
1968 Valiant said:
71 Scamp - Thankyou for your straight answere. I am not to far from you. We should meet up this summer.


I bought the 78 440. I am going to clean it up and paint it this weekend. Throw on a new (not motorhome) water pump and a few new seals and gaskets since I have it out.

I am all for more power in the long run but as I sit currently my goal is to get the car converted and driving properly. (torsion/sway bars and brakes) Once I have accomplished that I will start collecting some more performance pieces. Cam / Intake carb possibly new pistons.

I want the grunt of a big block but I am very much a "cruiser" in the sence that I acually like the smooth quiet feel of a stock big block. This car is not my daily driver but I do drive my projects year round.

Question;

I have a stock oil pan off my 68 383 out of a C-body. Will this bolt up to the 440 and work in my Valiant with no steering problems?

Thanks again Everyone for the help
Click to expand...

I would enjoy meeting you sometime. Private message me and we can see how our schedules work out.

I personally think you are on the right track. Get the motor installed and run it as-is for a little while. Identify the things you want to change (more torque, higher rpm range, etc.) during this break-in period. Work on the suspension, steering and brakes (and A/C if this summer turns out like last...) and then engage phase 2 of your project.

I am not positive on the 383 pan, but I don't think it will work. Research it here and elsewhere. There is a pan (187 marking) that fits well I've heard, but once you do bump the performance, have it modified to allow 1 qt per 1000 rpm you push the motor (courtesy Don Dulmage).

Some guys are running SB radiators and fight cooling issues, but here you might be ok, especially with a HD fan.

Look forward to seeing how things work out for you.
 
I would second the "leave it as much alone as you can" deal. I would plan to do a couple things since you're there... Pull a spark plug and get the number off it. Make sure it's not anything special for the RV. Replace the water pump housing and pulleys with the 383 prts. Replace the distributor with an MP performance unit. Get the manifolds I mention in your other post... A place on Big block dart.com sells hipo manifolds that are modified to fit the A chassis. I've only seen/held one set but they seem to fit well and were IIRC $300 vs big $$ for headers. Also, the RV transmission may not fit your car. You need a non-truck tailhousing which means all different internals in most cases. Bigger RVs had the parking brake on the tranny tailhousing and that DEFINATELY won't fit. Some trucks came with pass car trannys.. the difference is the access plate for the tailhousing retaining clip... The truck has it on the side and will hit the floorpan of the A body tunnel. Pass car versions have the cover directly above (between the bolt holes) for the transmission mount.
 
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